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Author Topic:   Will Trump fail to build "The Wall" if all 7 border Republican Reps oppose funding?
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 53 (807238)
05-01-2017 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by marc9000
05-01-2017 7:42 AM


I don't know where you get this stuff from, if it were anywhere near true, Trump wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the presidency.

I don't know where LNA gets most of the stuff he posts, but it is certainly possible that most folks oppose the wall even if they are adamant about getting illegal immigrants out of the country. The wall is going to be an expensive boondoggle of questionable efficiency. Further, in order to complete the wall, it will be necessary for the federal government to take away the land of a folks substantially all of whom are Trump voters.

And of course there is the intense dislike that many folks have for all things Hilary Clinton.

It is a gross mistake, in my opinion, to assume that any particular one of Trump's policies is popular just because a little less than half of the voters picked him to be president.

Further, there are the folks who voted against Trump. If we take the hard line that the wall was what folks voted on, then we would conclude that a little over half of American voters did oppose the wall.

With regard to the popularity of a "pathway to citizenship", you can find information about that yourself. No need to rely on LamarkNewAge. The polls I have seen suggest that the majority of Republicans support a 'pathway to citizenship'

Yet Trump is president.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2017 7:42 AM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2017 5:10 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 20 of 53 (807249)
05-01-2017 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by marc9000
05-01-2017 5:10 PM


You seem to have an equal amount of respect for ALL voters, as if you favor mob rule. That's not how the U.S. works. (yet)

Given that the question is about Trump being elected, something that is based on voters only, then it makes sense to talk about how people voted. I am not going to question the wisdom of your comment. I will point out that your disrespect for some voters is irrelevant. I'm not trying to get you to change your opinion. I'm just pointing out that your own opinion on these particular issues (the wall, and path to citizenship) does not match with the majority of even Trump voters.

Republican special interests, not Republican voters.

Wrong again. The polls are about what voters think. The polls I cited where from "The Hill". I don't expect you to accept that; you can do your own research to figure out where the general opinion lies. At least you might do that if you weren't just citing your own opinion.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2017 5:10 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2017 7:05 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 53 (807264)
05-01-2017 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by marc9000
05-01-2017 7:05 PM


"Voters only", not the electoral college?

Here is the original exchange. You tell me if the electoral college is the least bit relevant in the context of that exchange.

LNA writes:

Trump started his presidency with a nation strongly opposed to his immigration policy (upwards of 80% support a pathway to citizenship as opposed to deportation while exit polls showed that 54% of American voters opposed The Wall)

marc9000 writes:

I don't know where you get this stuff from, if it were anywhere near true, Trump wouldn't have gotten anywhere near the presidency.

Quite obviously you were disputing the opinions of voters as expressed by LNA and not the electoral college result. But once called on your statement you try to move the goal posts into some other direction.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by marc9000, posted 05-01-2017 7:05 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 31 of 53 (807377)
05-02-2017 4:51 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Faith
05-02-2017 1:29 PM


Re: Two separate political worlds
Every day I wish I was dead, for at least part of the day after reading the news -- or a political thread at EvC.

I am distressed to read these words. Do you have folks you can share these feelings with?

There is no question that we live in "interesting" times, and that the news is not all that comforting for many of us.

If this isn't yet the official End of Days, how far off can it be?

There is no way to know. According to the Bible, we are asked to live our lives as though they end days might be any day.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Faith, posted 05-02-2017 1:29 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 41 of 53 (807398)
05-02-2017 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
05-02-2017 8:55 PM


I hate the opinions here. You shouldn't feel sympathetic for me.

If being here really makes you feel like killing yourself, wouldn't some time away be worth trying? What do you think would go on if you were not here to counterbalance the lefties, liberals, communists, and atheists?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 05-02-2017 8:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-03-2017 12:25 AM NoNukes has responded
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 05-03-2017 4:10 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 44 of 53 (807439)
05-03-2017 4:26 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
05-03-2017 4:10 AM


I don't "feel like killing myself," Suicide is not an option.

Okay. I see the difference.

Wishing I was dead is a wish.

A fantasy about someone knocking at the door and then shooting me dead when I open it.

That still sounds pretty awful. Prayer does seem like a good idea.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 05-03-2017 4:10 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 45 of 53 (807440)
05-03-2017 4:28 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by LamarkNewAge
05-03-2017 12:25 AM


Re: On the issue of Faith and what she feels about the future.
Honestly, I think she has been mislead, and she really "hates" a media man

There are times when falling silent is better than any response you or I could ever make.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-03-2017 12:25 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by LamarkNewAge, posted 05-03-2017 8:17 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 48 of 53 (807526)
05-03-2017 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by New Cat's Eye
05-03-2017 10:35 AM


Re: Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
But my actual conclusion is that people who voted for Trump aren't the type of people that care about exit polls - and that means that you can't assume that the results from 0.03% of the group accurately reflects the whole.

What is that "conclusion" based on? And isn't the real question not whether they care about exit polls, but whether a particular group participated in them in enough numbers to reasonably identify their position?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-03-2017 10:35 AM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-03-2017 3:47 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 53 (807591)
05-04-2017 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by New Cat's Eye
05-03-2017 3:47 PM


Re: Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
Well, there's the math - in that 0.03% is pretty small and it wouldn't be a fair assumption to just take that as representing the whole at face value.

Just how many folks do you think show up in most national polls? If you were sampling a city for air quality, what percentage of the city air would you try to run through your equipment?

Statistically, what percentage of 63 million people is required to have a reasonable sample?

By "don't care" I meant "didn't take them".

If you did not mean to base your statement on "types", then how are you concluding that they did not participate when clearly some did? You are saying that Trump supporters seem like the kind of folks that "didn't take them?" How can you conclude that?

Your logic is pretty bad here.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-03-2017 3:47 PM New Cat's Eye has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-04-2017 9:34 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 53 (807767)
05-05-2017 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by New Cat's Eye
05-04-2017 9:34 AM


Re: Exit polls showed lots of actual voters answering specific policy questions.
Not as bad as your comprehension...

What I do comprehend is that your attempt to paint the sampling of Trump voters as somehow harder than taking any other sample is without basis.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

History will have to record that the greatest tragedy of this period of social transition was not the strident clamor of the bad people, but the appalling silence of the good people. Martin Luther King

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Seems to me if its clear that certain things that require ancient dates couldn't possibly be true, we are on our way to throwing out all those ancient dates on the basis of the actual evidence. -- Faith

Some of us are worried about just how much damage he will do in his last couple of weeks as president, to make it easier for the NY Times and Washington post to try to destroy Trump's presidency. -- marc9000


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by New Cat's Eye, posted 05-04-2017 9:34 AM New Cat's Eye has not yet responded

  
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