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Author Topic:   Can mutation and selection increase information?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19125
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 126 of 222 (816505)
08-05-2017 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by Vlad
08-05-2017 6:33 AM


Re: Individual fitness
Vlad writes:

Well, your trouble, guys....


YOUR trouble is that you don't pay any attention to rebuttals. Answer some posts and you may be taken seriously.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by Vlad, posted 08-05-2017 6:33 AM Vlad has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19125
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 164 of 222 (818120)
08-23-2017 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by CRR
08-22-2017 2:44 AM


Re: random and non-random mutations
CRR writes:

Random mutation degrades existing information.


How can you know whether the information is "degraded" before it is filtered by selection? What if a mutation makes an organism fitter in a new environment while the unmutated individuals remain fitter in the old environment? Isn't that an effective increase in information?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by CRR, posted 08-22-2017 2:44 AM CRR has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by CRR, posted 08-25-2017 2:09 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19125
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 176 of 222 (818248)
08-25-2017 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by CRR
08-25-2017 2:09 AM


Re: random and non-random mutations
CRR writes:

We already know that most evolution happens by the loss of information.


Do we? How do you dstinguish between a "loss" of information and a change in information? Does "cat" contain more or less information than "bat"? Or is it just different information?

CRR writes:

So that would appear to be a qualified yes to the question "Can mutation and selection increase information?".


But it wouldn't be an answer to the question I asked you.

Here it is again: How can you know whether the information is "degraded" before it is filtered by selection? What if a mutation makes an organism fitter in a new environment while the unmutated individuals remain fitter in the old environment? Isn't that an effective increase in information?

Forget about woo-woo arguments about "more" or "less" information. If the new organism is better suited to survive, isn't the change in information an effective improvement?


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 Message 170 by CRR, posted 08-25-2017 2:09 AM CRR has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by jar, posted 08-25-2017 11:51 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19125
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 205 of 222 (818640)
08-31-2017 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Percy
08-31-2017 1:14 PM


Re: Cells
Uif lfzxpse jt Qfsdz.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Percy, posted 08-31-2017 1:14 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Percy, posted 08-31-2017 1:40 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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