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Author Topic:   A Creationist Sues the Grand Canyon for Religious Discrimination
JonF
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 15 of 99 (809343)
05-17-2017 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Faith
05-17-2017 8:16 PM


Re: Flood disproved
The same reasoning I posted for you and summarized for you a month or so ago.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Faith, posted 05-17-2017 8:16 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 05-17-2017 10:42 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 19 of 99 (809383)
05-18-2017 9:38 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
05-17-2017 10:42 PM


Re: Flood disproved
Basically he realized that the fossils on mountaintops lived and grew where they were found (wherever that might have been at the time) and were far too complete to be deposited by moving water.
quote:
Since things are much more ancient than letters, it is no marvel if, in our day, no records exist of these seas having covered so many countries. . . But sufficient for us is the testimony of things created in the salt waters, and found again in high mountains far from the seas.
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/history/vinci.html

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 Message 16 by Faith, posted 05-17-2017 10:42 PM Faith has replied

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 Message 20 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 10:07 AM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


(1)
Message 40 of 99 (809441)
05-18-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
05-18-2017 10:07 AM


Re: Leonardo inadvertently proves the Flood
At first glance this seems to contradict what RAZD just posted about Leonardo's refuting the idea that the fossils in mountains had grown there
No contradiction there. He refuted the ideas that they had been deposited by any flood or had grown *IN* the rocks. "In" means "inside existing rocks", which was one theory of fossils at the time. He realized that they had grown on an exposed sea floor and later been covered and leater been uplifted.
If local floods could have deposited them and not broken them to bits, why couldn't the worldwide Flood?
Local floods could not have deposited them without breaking them to bits.
Why is there such certainty about what the Flood would have done as long as it contradicts what the Bible says?
Because we know a lot of how the physical world works.
So the Flood laid down all the sediments along with the shells and other fossils, and after the Flood the mountains were raised: that's the tectonic activity that occurred with the splitting of the continents. See? It all works out just fine.
Back to magic. The fludde was an incomprehensible raging torrent when you need it, it was a millpond when you need that. Leonardo was smart enough to realize that it doesn't work out just fine, and all the evidence and knowledge we have gained since then supports that conclusion. If the fludde had laid down the sediments and fossils THEY WOULD BE BROKEN UP AND WOULD NOT SHOW OBVIOUS SIGNS OF HAVING GROWN WHERE THEY WERE FOUND.

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 Message 20 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 10:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 12:34 PM JonF has replied

  
JonF
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 57 of 99 (809486)
05-18-2017 1:35 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Faith
05-18-2017 12:34 PM


Re: Leonardo inadvertently proves the Flood
Local floods could not have deposited them without breaking them to bits.
So you agree that Leonardo was wrong about that.
He thought that some fossils could have been deposited by local floods but the Noachic fludde could not have deposited the fossils he studied. The link I gave does not say that he thought local floods could have deposited the fossils of which he wrote "if the shells had been carried by the muddy deluge they would have been mixed up, and separated from each other amidst the mud, and not in regular steps and layers -- as we see them now in our time."
Why is there such certainty about what the Flood would have done as long as it contradicts what the Bible says?
Because we know a lot of how the physical world works.
Um, the scientists so far quoted disagree with each other quite a bit about how the physical world works.
I certainly haven't see anyone doubt what we know about floods we've observed or left unmistakable traces in the past, or basic hydrodynamics. Got any references?

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 Message 44 by Faith, posted 05-18-2017 12:34 PM Faith has not replied

  
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