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Author Topic:   the variety and evolution of reproduction methods over time.
RAZD
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Message 44 of 187 (810727)
06-01-2017 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Porosity
05-31-2017 8:38 PM


Sexual Reproduction needs to be studied by The Silly Design Institute ...
I don't think anyone is rejecting design just based on reproduction. We know what design looks like and we simply do not see anything being designed in nature.

Curiously I think whenever design is being discussed we need to look at both sides of the controversy ... Silly Design Institute: Let's discuss BOTH sides of the Design Controversy...:

quote:
The Silly Design Institute's mission is to make Americans fully aware of both sides of the Design debate, whether they want to be or not.

We feel that both sides of the design debate need to be provided in schools and in the media, to inform the public and the students so that they can make up their own minds and not be dictated to by self-serving organizations, ...

The Silly Design Theory (SDT, not to be confused with STD) is based on a very simple set of concepts:

  • the existence of design in natural systems is obvious, whether it is a human eye, a bird wing or the flagellum of a bacteria, there is a feature with a purpose;
  • the preponderance of these purposeful features in all forms of life, from simple to complex, shows that a design process is at work;
  • that the debate over whether the design is the result of natural forces or the intent of some cosmic designer cannot be resolved by investigation of the designs, because the natural forces could be designed by the cosmic designer as the means to achieve the end purpose of the designs;
  • that the ultimate purpose of the designs can be determined by investigation of multitudes of features to see if they more accurately reflect (a) random design, the result of totally natural forces, (b) highly specific design, for some intelligent purpose, or (c) variations on a silly design, for some silly (entertainment, amusement, reality tv) purpose;
  • that the design purpose, as determined by rigorous scientific investigation, will then make clear whether the designer is (a) a Natural Nothing (NaNo), (b) an Intelligent Designer (IDr) or (c) a Cosmic Imp (CImp), and that this will then finally resolve whether there is or is not a designer as well as the nature of that designer: a metaphysical two-fer.

The Hypothesis to be tested, therefore, is that "life, the universe, and everything" show evidence of Silly Design (SD).


And it occurs to me that the variety and intermingling of the various ways of sexual reproduction would have a high SI value (SI - the Silliness Index - for comparing the relative silliness of different features, the higher the SI the higher the probability of Silly Design). Message 23 touches briefly on some aspects of this, but it needs to be studied in great detail to fully comprehend the depth of silliness involved.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .

Edited by RAZD, : ..


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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
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Posts: 20323
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(1)
Message 62 of 187 (810946)
06-03-2017 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by ProtoTypical
06-03-2017 7:34 AM


The untested design hypothesis
The 'why' of it comes in when considering the design objective. How can you be critical of an arrangement if you don't know what the arrangement is for?

Conversely, how can you support a "design objective" if you don't know what the arrangement is for? This is the issue behind Silly Design Institute: Let's discuss BOTH sides of the Design Controversy... and Is ID properly pursued?. In the latter I note:

quote:
This assumes a fair degree of development, capability, education and intelligence on the part of the observer. A "Poison Dart" Frog cannot look at a watch and discern that it is a designed object, and neither could a native person unschooled in the concepts of manufacturing such products ... yet he is capable and intelligent enough to discern the cause and effect (and how to make use of) the frog's venom. There are, in fact, historical documents recording where explorers showed watches and the like to such unschooled natives and the natives thought that they were magical objects rather than manufactured things.

The search for the evidence of design must be done by those with the most capable trained "eyes" free of constrained perspectives - the most open and complete knowledge of the physical workings of the universe and all it contains ... matter, energy, life. Anything less will likely lead to mistakes or a lack of understanding to see the actual fingerprints of design.

Without as complete a base of knowledge as possible we could be looking at a watch with the mind of a frog, or we could be like a child, bemused by a kaleidoscope of pattern when there is none ... we could be unable to properly observe and evaluate the evidence before us.


An open-minded skeptic will consider the possibility of a designer, and be skeptical that it exists due to lack of objective empirical evidence. In essence will make no decision yay or nay until there is evidence one way or the other.

The "design" could be as simple as creation of the universe with all the physics etc laws so that life would form and evolve with no other effort required, or as complex as micromanaging every little puff of wind, every little movement of atoms, obsessively directing everything.

Personally I favor the former as the latter seems inept, error prone, myopic and fumbling, focusing on one problem at a time regardless of consequences that then have to be taken care of in unending ineptitude.

Curiously, it seems religions tend to favor the latter.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by ProtoTypical, posted 06-03-2017 7:34 AM ProtoTypical has responded

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 Message 65 by ProtoTypical, posted 06-03-2017 1:14 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
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Posts: 20323
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(2)
Message 72 of 187 (810988)
06-03-2017 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Faith
06-03-2017 4:08 PM


We do know.
as contradictory to things we already know to be true.

But you don't.

But we do.

Things like the extreme age of the earth being necessarily way older than all YEC pipe dreams. The evidence is everywhere, from radiometric age, to tree rings, to relative age of sedimentary layering, to astronomical changes of the moon affecting the earth's rate of spin over time, recorded in coral heads confirming extreme old age.

You yourself cannot begin explain the simplest data of tree rings, you've said so.

Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 has defeated every YEC attempt to show alternative explanations, because they cannot explain the correlations -- why different systems give the same ages.

Why different labs can reproduce the same results over and over and over. (a wink at the topic? )

Such correlations between different methods can only occur through astronomical blind chance larger than any ID argument, the action of a jester god who is out to fool you, or reality.

I'll take reality.

But gosh, have you creationists ever dragged THIS thread way off topic with your song and dance. Typical.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Faith, posted 06-03-2017 4:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 06-03-2017 7:50 PM RAZD has responded
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RAZD
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Posts: 20323
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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Message 75 of 187 (811006)
06-04-2017 6:50 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
06-03-2017 7:50 PM


Re: We do know.
All reason and logic are NOT on the side of ID as well as YEC. ...

There, fixed it for you.

... You have to ignore all that to make your dating methods superior. Like all methods that seek to reach into the prehistoric past they can't be corroborated. ...

Except they are corroborated every time they agree from one method to the other, every time they correlate.

... You get one reading based on a theory and that's all you have. You need a lot more than that. ...

And we HAVE a lot more that that, we get thousands of readings, and we get readings from multiple labs with different methods from the same sample and surprise: they agree. You have absolutely no idea how much work is done on dating methods to calibrate and correlate dates.

You only say this out of desperate blind ignorance, in spite of being unable to handle the evidence on Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1

And if you continue to disagree then start at Message 2 and try to prove them wrong. You won't last. CRR just gave up on doing that after only 3 posts ... will you be the next creationist to run away from reality?

Note you should answer on that thread rather than here, as the age dating is not this thread topic.

... Meanwhile the logic and reason wishful thinking that support the argument of design and irreducible complexity ...

There, fixed that for you.

... should be enough to call the dating methods into question.

Except that they say absolutely nothing about the dating methods. This is a stretch even for you Faith.

Message 74: Come to think of it, I don't know how the dating methods relate to ID. Although I jumped in here to defend the logic of ID, I'm not a follower of ID and don't know whether it's Old Earth or Young Earth.

And again, the topic is the variety and evolution of reproduction methods over time so this is off topic as well as foolish.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
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Posts: 20323
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
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(1)
Message 77 of 187 (811013)
06-04-2017 7:28 AM
Reply to: Message 76 by ProtoTypical
06-04-2017 7:19 AM


My fairly narrow point is that sometimes design looks like this

Curiously I have always thought it makes more sense to think of the designer as an artist not as an engineer.


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
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Posts: 20323
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Joined: 03-14-2004
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(3)
Message 155 of 187 (822545)
10-27-2017 11:21 AM
Reply to: Message 154 by dwise1
10-27-2017 11:07 AM


I would applaud their zealous efforts to promote the growth and spread of atheism except for the fact that they also teach an aberrant form of atheism which does nobody any good.

Just remember that nobody is completely useless ...

... they can always serve as a bad example.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20323
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 176 of 187 (823336)
11-09-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by ringo
11-09-2017 11:00 AM


... "He learned nothing and forgot nothing."

Isn't it "He knew nothing, learned nothing, and forgot nothing"?


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20323
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 187 of 187 (823661)
11-15-2017 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Pressie
11-15-2017 5:06 AM


Re: towards the subject
Actually, some unicellular organisms do have to have sex with themselves to be able to reproduce. Those organisms don't have to wear clown uniforms or paint their faces red or even blush about it. So, what's your point?

That he's proud of his heritage?


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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