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| Author | Topic: the variety and evolution of reproduction methods over time. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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ProtoTypical Member  Posts: 1773 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
I don't understand this point at all. How else could it possibly look? If you design a universe and it has processes in it then those processes will, no doubt, look natural. I mean what else would a designer use if not natural processes? Or put another way, whatever a designer might use would become a defacto natural process. As to the question of why is the hypothetical designer is not immediately apparent I don't know but I don't think deception is the only option. Being a wee little human in a 14.5 billion yr old universe with a wee little brain might be another possibility.
No one is saying that the evidence doesn't matter. I am just taking exception to what is being inferred from the evidence and trying to be rigorous with the logic. Is it possible to identify ourselves as being part of a designed system from the inside of that system?
Better check with jar on that but yeah. My objective is to examine my own belief on the subject.
I am just saying that any apparent localized disorder in the goings on of the universe isn't a very robust argument against the existence of a designer. edit but apparently we are not talking about that Edited by ProtoTypical, : No reason given.
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New Cat's Eye Inactive Member |
Right on, you're right. I think my misunderstanding stemmed from a divergence between the slight contextual difference, and the big conceptual difference, from there is a designer and there could be a designer. But I could be wrong about that too Cheers!
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ProtoTypical Member Posts: 1773 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
This is a critical distinction.
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Coyote Member (Idle past 149 days)  Posts: 6117 Joined:
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How? Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge. Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1 "Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity. Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.
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Taq Member  Posts: 7670 Joined: Member Rating: 4.3 |
If species were separately designed then we wouldn't expect to see a nested hierarchy since there is no reason that a designer would force its designs into a nested hierarchy. The only reason we would expect to see a nested hierarchy is if species evolved from a common ancestor.
As described above, yes. If we suddenly saw nearly all species suddenly appear in the fossil record just 10,000 years ago, then I think we could conclude that there is a high probability that we are in a designed system of life.
If I may make a suggestion, your first step should be to ask yourself what it would take to prove ID/creationism wrong. That is what any good scientist would do. What would it take to disprove ID/creationism when it comes to the question of the origin of species? From what I have seen so far, you seem to have taken the position that a designer can do anything and produce every possible observation. If that is the case, then I don't see how your belief can be examined.
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ProtoTypical Member Posts: 1773 From: Ontario Canada Joined: |
Off topic but on point, this is the question.
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Dredge Member Posts: 715 From: Australia Joined: |
How did placental mammals manage to evolve from an egg-laying reptile? In order for this to happen, a line of reptiles would have had to have evolved a complete placental reproductive system while still being egg-layers. My fragile, egg-shell mind has a lot of trouble understanding this idea. Help needed. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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jar Member  Posts: 30934 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Too funny. Or placental mammals did not evolve directly from reptiles but rather other forms of mammals such as marsupials. Remember the big difference is really pretty minor across several boundaries, and there are also reptiles that give live birth as well as species of reptiles that have a structure similar to a mammalian placenta such as skinks. Egg production happens even in the Great Apes like humans. The variety and evolution of reproduction methods is amazing.
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Dredge Member Posts: 715 From: Australia Joined: |
How did a line of reptiles evolve the system of milk production and mammary glands of mammals? Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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granpa Member (Idle past 385 days) Posts: 128 Joined:
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Look at monotremes and marsupials Why BELIEVE that it will rain today when you can KNOW that it might rain today. Belief is unnecessary and illogical. A moral person is a person that understands that the universe does not revolve around their ego. A civilized society is a society whose laws do not revolve around any one person or group of people.
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Phat Member  Posts: 12029 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.4 |
I think that jars point about designers being irrelevant is a bit pompous on our part, however. Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)
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jar Member Posts: 30934 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Slowly and over long periods of time. Lots of animals secrete juices from their skin including many reptiles. The mammary system is simply a continuation of that.
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Dredge Member Posts: 715 From: Australia Joined: |
quote: Sorry, "Slowly over long periods of time" doesn't explain anything. This is the Darwinist's equivalent of the Creationists' "God did it." Any mammary system is very complex, but you seem happy to believe that such a system evolved by sheer luck. This is akin to believing a mammary system could evolve in a human male. Fantasy and rank speculation masquerading as science. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given. Edited by Dredge, : No reason given.
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jar Member Posts: 30934 From: Texas!! Joined: |
Silly Rabbi, Kicks are for Trids. How silly can you get Dredge? No luck involved; instead there are changes that get filtered by natural selection. You really need to go back and learn some of the very basic basics. There was never a goal to "Develop a mammary system" or any other system. Anyone beyond elementary school should understand that. Evolution is not goal oriented or even directional. Go back and try to learn the basics before trying to sound like you know squat.
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Dredge Member Posts: 715 From: Australia Joined: |
quote: Really. How does 0.05% of a mammary system confer a survival advantage?
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