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Author Topic:   Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left
Tusko
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


Message 253 of 381 (813715)
06-30-2017 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Faith
06-29-2017 12:28 PM


Re: A Review of what Classical and Cultural Marxism have in common
Sorry to butt in, but I don't think Marxism has anything to say about whiteness, blackness, or the rest (unless you are conflating actual Marxism with this apparently unrelated 'Cultural Marxism stuff'?). Nor does it say that professing religion marks you as an oppressor. Quite the contrary: if it is the opiate of the people, then you are rather marked as one of the oppressed ... unless of course you are an employer who owns the means of production, in which case you probably would be considered an oppressor. But I don't think a Marxist would of necessity feel anything but empathy for you otherwise.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Faith, posted 06-29-2017 12:28 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 256 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 8:52 AM Tusko has not replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


(2)
Message 261 of 381 (813734)
06-30-2017 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 246 by Faith
06-29-2017 6:23 PM


Re: Once again, Faith presents no evidence that anyone controls her, censors her, enforce
(When I get the time I will have a look at the video you recommended in your other response, though I having read a bit more about the Frankfurt School Cultural Marxism conspiracy theory on Wikipedia I don't think it has very much to do with actual Marxism. It sounds more like a reactionary appropriation of an obscure offshoot of Marxism.)
As a UK resident, and someone whose experience leads me to believe that Muslims are about as nice as any other minority group, maybe I can put your mind at rest about the UK. It seems to me there isn't much chance of it becoming an Islamic state in the next few decades, if ever. And I would say this was in significant part due to political correctness. To the best of my understanding, being 'politically correct' is about taking a classically liberal approach (liberal in the John Stuart Mill sense, not like Satan) - which is precisely the opposite of embracing a particular religious denomination to the exclusion of all others.
That's why I think being politically correct is actually rather wonderful, tolerant, enriching etc... - at least when it means being empathetic, slow to judge, tolerant, and quick to defend people's ability to believe - in their own home at the very least - whatever they wish.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 246 by Faith, posted 06-29-2017 6:23 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 10:24 AM Tusko has replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


(1)
Message 263 of 381 (813736)
06-30-2017 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 262 by Faith
06-30-2017 10:24 AM


Re: Once again, Faith presents no evidence that anyone controls her, censors her, enforce
This is maybe a bit of a sidetrack, but I've long been interested in the idea of political correctness. It is a term largely used in a pejorative sense - but if you look beyond the convenient caricature and ask "why would anybody actually think political correctness was a good idea?" then just as you say, it becomes a collection of rather Christian-sounding values - turn the other cheek, beams in eyes, etc... Becuase, as I understand it, the popularisation of the notion of "political correctness" is an attempt to discredit the classical liberal project: personal freedom, responsibility, etc...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 262 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 10:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by JonF, posted 06-30-2017 10:33 AM Tusko has not replied
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 11:53 AM Tusko has replied

  
Tusko
Member (Idle past 128 days)
Posts: 615
From: London, UK
Joined: 10-01-2004


(2)
Message 301 of 381 (813803)
06-30-2017 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Faith
06-30-2017 11:53 AM


Re: Political Correctness again
Seen the video now Faith. It was well produced.
It is true that there are things that it touches on that leave me a bit disquieted. Certainly what is called "no-platforming" here in the UK, and I assume in the US too, leaves me a bit concerned. I don't think exposure to dangerous ideas is necessarily a bad thing, and who gets to decide what a dangerous idea is anyway?
But there are things in the video that also seem weak. For instance, is it really being argued that racial discrimination against minorities is not a problem now? That women being sexist is as big a problem as men? That prejudice against minority religions isn't a problem? At best these ideas seem naive, and at worst they just seem plain nasty.
Out of interest, do you think implicit bias is a problem, or is it just mumbo jumbo?
And although just a minor point, suggesting that one's opponents are sheep, afraid to stray from orthodoxy, while asserting what is an even more established orthodoxy, seems pretty self-defeating. Even putting the paradoxical element of that bit of silly sniping to one side, it is such a gross generalisation. Sure there are people who are afraid to stray from the party line in any group, but there are others who aren't. So what?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 11:53 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 304 by Faith, posted 06-30-2017 10:15 PM Tusko has not replied
 Message 313 by Faith, posted 07-01-2017 11:05 PM Tusko has not replied

  
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