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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Exploring (mostly Cultural) Marxism in today's Left | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
The only named biographer is Payne, who is also not Marx's "official biographer", and not even one of the best. Moreover the statement attributed to him is unlikely to have been meant as literally as Wurmbrand needs it to be.
If that's the calibre of evidence on offer, I can say that Wurmbrand's effort is just another of those nasty smears you love so much.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Joanna Southcott was not a Satanist. And if Wurmbrand makes obviously false claims about that, how can we trust him on anything else ?
And I'm still waiting for you to support your claim that Wurmbrand was quoting an "official biographer" when the material you quote from Wurmbrand seems to be clearly talking about Payne.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: I don't think that an interpretation of one biographer's interpretation is much of an argument. Do you ?
quote: Or more likely a deluded Christian. At least to those informed of the basics of her life.
quote: I doubt it.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
If Marx's son in law was a Satanist that would only be weak circumstantial evidence that Marx himself was a Satanist - very weak when the relationship only began after Marx's death.
However, Edward Aveling was an atheist according to the main evidence available and Wurmbrand only offers weak circumstantial evidence to the contrary. You know, if you want to convince us that Wurmbrand has a case you really shouldn't be telling about this desperate scrambling for anything that might count as evidence.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: Which can easily be confirmed.
quote: Aveling
In 1884, Aveling became the partner of Eleanor "Tussy" Marx, the daughter of Karl Marx
Eleanor Marx
In 1884, Eleanor joined the Social Democratic Federation (SDF) led by Henry Hyndman and was elected to its executive. During her work in the SDF, she met Edward Aveling, with whom she would spend the rest of her life.
Karl Marx died in March 1883 How could Marx approve of a "marriage" to a man that Eleanor had not even met before he died ?
quote: It is certainly a poem, and thus very likely not to be taken literally.
quote: It is easy enough to check. And since you have yet to provide any real evidence that Aveling was a Satan worshipper it says more about you and Wurmbrand than it does about Marx.
quote: If you have good evidence you don't waste your time with trash like this. Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
What a biographer does or does not include depends on the aims of the biographer. A biographer does not have to be sympathetic to his subject.
More importantly, making excuses for the absence of evidence - while a staple of conspiracy theorists - does not change the fact that the evidence is absent. If you are reduced to relying on weak circumstantial evidence to generate weak circumstantial evidence then you do not have a case. It speaks ill of Wurmbrand that he is reduced to such tactics.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: I'm not any sort of follower of Marx and there is nothing worth taking seriously as evidence that Marx actually worshipped Satan. On the other hand there is plenty of evidence that Wurmbrand's book is a waste of time. Thanks for providing that.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
I probably wouldn't have. I might have had it been better and relevant. But it wasn't relevant before and now I know that it is worthless even if it's subject should be of relevance to me.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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I'm sorry that it is good enough for you.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: He tries to use hair style as "evidence" of Satanism. And even gets that wrong.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
quote: And now you remind me of the exchange starting here Message 753 Funny how it took you less than two weeks to go from denying that you say such things to saying them again.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: Conditions which don't exist and aren't likely to exist in America.
quote: That's rather your thing. In fact this whole line is an example of it. And really, if you are talking about actual Marxism don't you think that employers had a lot to do with the awful working conditions many people suffered in Marx's time ? Which is rather more than can be said for the targets of your hate.
quote: You denied that it was a problem when a Rightist did it. And let us be honest "subhuman vermin" is rather closer to the Nazi attitude than the actual statements you object to.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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quote: Then you should give thanks to the Left for those legal protections. Which are part of the way that the system avoids the dangers of unrestricted capitalism (ABE but read THIS ) And it's not just employees who have to fear.
Shkreli’s plans to fleece patients is what hooked big investorstestimony Whether you consider massive price increases with no justification other than that the patients - or their insurers - have no good alternative to paying up - "fleecing" or not, it's still nasty. But that's capitalism for you. Edited by PaulK, : Added material (marked ABE)
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2
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Don't give me your tired, your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free. They're the wrong sort of people.
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PaulK Member Posts: 17822 Joined: Member Rating: 2.2 |
Given that the Socialists kicked out Mussolini and the Communists wouldn't have Hitler the "connection" doesn't seem to be exactly strong.
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