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Author Topic:   The economy needs a 3% GDP growth to function well
RAZD
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Message 17 of 50 (821005)
09-30-2017 10:05 AM


Wealth -- what is it?
The problem with the current economic system is that it only measures "wealth" in monetary units:

To be "wealthy" in this system you must accumulate a lot of money and things valued in monetary units.

In my thinking this is a false paradigm. This is what causes Trump, the Koch brothers, Walmart and the republican party.

A person can be wealthy, in my opinion, if they are surrounded by a happy and supportive family (Asgara and Buz come to mind), and a person can have a wealth of knowledge. These things do not have a strict monetary value and so they are not included in the "economy" valuation.

What is wealth?

Bing dictionary brings up:

quote:
wealth
[welTH]
NOUN

an abundance of valuable possessions or money:
"he used his wealth to bribe officials"
synonyms: affluence · prosperity · riches · means · substance · fortune · money · cash · lucre · capital · treasure · finance · assets · possessions · resources · funds · property · [more]

  • the state of being rich; material prosperity:
    "some people buy boats and cars to display their wealth"
  • plentiful supplies of a particular resource:
    "the country's mineral wealth"
  • a plentiful supply of a particular desirable thing:
    "the tables and maps contain a wealth of information"
    synonyms: abundance · profusion · mine · store · treasury · bounty · bonanza · cornucopia · myriad · lot · load · heap · mass · mountain · stack · ton · plenitude
  • archaic
    well-being; prosperity.

It is only when you get to archaic that you get to well-being ...

So to my thinking a country is wealthy that is concerned with and encourages the well-being of it's citizens, that has a wealth of knowledge to handle problems (like global climate change and renewable power generation), where the health and happiness of the citizens is a paramount concern.

That is not the current USofA ...

quote:
Gross National Happiness

Gross National Happiness (also known by the acronym : GNH) is a developing philosophy as well as an "index" which is used to measure the collective happiness in any specific nation.

The concept was first mentioned in the Constitution of Bhutan, which was enacted on 18 July, 2008.[1]

However, the term itself, 'Gross National Happiness', was previously coined in 1979 during an interview at Bombay airport when the then king of Bhutan, Jigme Singye Wangchuck, said "We do not believe in Gross National Product. Gross National Happiness is more important."[2]

GNH Implementation

The implementation of a GNH policy can be challenging as it requires considerable institutional support. In Bhutan, the implementation – or mainstreaming – of GNH into political institutions has been a gradual process for several decades but recently accelerated with the introduction of the GNH Index and the GNH Screening Tool.

As part of a lengthy and ongoing process of integrating the GNH philosophy into public policy, the GNH Index was developed by the Centre for Bhutan Studies (CBS) to help measure the progress of Bhutanese society. In 2010, the first nationwide GNH survey was conducted with a sample size of 8,510 Bhutanese aged 15 and above. The second nationwide survey was conducted in 2015 and had a sample size of 8,871. After all three rounds of surveys, follow-up interviews and additional data gathering was conducted in order to review and refine the survey. The GNH survey covers all twenty districts (Dzonkhag) and results are reported for varying demographic factors such as gender, age, abode, and occupation. The survey therefore provides a rich dataset to compare the happiness between different groups of citizens, and how this has changed over time.[12]


quote:
Lifestyle > Happiness net: Countries Compared

DEFINITION: This statistic is compiled from responses to the survey question: "Taking all things together, would you say you are: very happy, quite happy, not very happy, or not at all happy?". The "Happiness (net)" statistic was obtained via the following formula: the percentage of people who rated themselves as either "quite happy" or "very happy" minus the percentage of people who rated themselves as either "not very happy" or "not at all happy".

1Iceland 94%2005
2Sweden 91%2005
2Denmark 91%2005
2Netherlands 91%2005
5Australia 90%2005
6Ireland 89%2005
6Switzerland 89%2005
8Norway 88%2005
9Venezuela 87%2005
9United Kingdom 87%2005
11Belgium 86%2005
12Philippines 85%2005
13United States 84%2005
13France 84%2005
15Finland 83%2005
16Austria 81%2005
17Canada 75%2005
18Poland 74%2005
19Japan 72%2005
20Turkey 71%2005
21Bangladesh 70%2005
22Spain 68%2005
23Italy 64%2005
24Uruguay 60%2005
25Brazil 59%2005
25Argentina 59%2005
27Azerbaijan 56%2005
28Chile 52%2005
29China 49%2005
30Portugal 48%2005
30Mexico 48%2005
32Dominican Republic 47%2005
33Nigeria 46%2005
33Hungary 46%2005
35Ghana 43%2005
36India 40%2005
37Slovenia 32%2005
38Croatia 31%2005
39Georgia 27%2005
39Latvia 27%2005
41Estonia 26%2005
42Romania 23%2005
43Armenia 14%2005
44Lithuania 10%2005
45Slovakia 4%2005
46Russia 2%2005
47Ukraine -4%2005
48Belarus -8%2005
49Moldova -12%2005
50Bulgaria -24%2005
Group of 7 countries (G7) average 77.67%2005
NATO countries average 54.36%2005

Citation:
"Countries Compared by Lifestyle > Happiness net. International Statistics at NationMaster.com", World Values Survey 2005. Aggregates compiled by NationMaster. Retrieved from http://www.nationmaster.com/...stats/Lifestyle/Happiness-net


Now I imagine a few nations have changed position since 2005 (Venezuela for instance), but I can't help notice that countries with high degrees of social democratic policies -- such as universal health care and guaranteed minimum income -- rank at the top, and that the US ranks 12th (in 2005).

So I would contend that GNH is a better measure of "wealth" than GNP ... particularly as it is difficult to have too much happiness.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2017 12:16 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 24 of 50 (825698)
12-17-2017 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by RAZD
09-30-2017 10:05 AM


Re: Wealth -- what is it?
Where does happiness fit into your life? your concept of wealth?

It is crucial to well-being, health and personal satisfaction. My previous post on this listed information from 2005.

There is updated information since my last post:

quote:
World Happiness Report 2017

The first World Happiness Report was published in April, 2012, in support of the UN High Level Meeting on happiness and well-being. Since then the world has come a long way. Increasingly, happiness is considered to be the proper measure of social progress and the goal of public policy. In June 2016 the OECD committed itself “to redefine the growth narrative to put people’s well-being at the center of governments’ efforts”. In February 2017, the United Arab Emirates held a full-day World Happiness meeting, as part of the World Government Summit. Now on World Happiness Day, March 20th, we launch the World Happiness Report 2017, once again back at the United Nations, again published by the Sustainable Development Solutions Network, and now supported by a generous three-year grant from the Ernesto Illy Foundation. Some highlights are as follows.

Norway tops the global happiness rankings for 2017

Norway has jumped from 4th place in 2016 to 1st place this year, followed by Denmark, Iceland and Switzerland in a tightly packed bunch. All of the top four countries rank highly on all the main factors found to support happiness: caring, freedom, generosity, honesty, health, income and good governance. Their averages are so close that small changes can re-order the rankings from year to year. ...

All of the other countries in the top ten also have high values in all six of the key variables used to explain happiness differences among countries and through time – income, healthy life expectancy, having someone to count on in times of trouble, generosity, freedom and trust, with the latter measured by the absence of corruption in business and government. Here too there has been some shuffling of ranks among closely grouped countries, with this year’s rankings placing Finland in 5thplace, followed by the Netherlands, Canada, New Zealand, and Australia and Sweden tied for the 9th position, having the same 2014-2016 score to three decimals.

However 80% of the variance of happiness across the world occurs within countries. In richer countries the within-country differences are not mainly explained by income inequality, but by differences in mental health, physical health and personal relationships: the biggest single source of misery is mental illness (see Chapter 5). Income differences matter more in poorer countries, but even their mental illness is a major source of misery.

Work is also a major factor affecting happiness (see Chapter 6). Unemployment causes a major fall in happiness, and even for those in work the quality of work can cause major variations in happiness.

Happiness has fallen in America

The USA is a story of reduced happiness. In 2007 the USA ranked 3rd among the OECD countries; in 2016 it came 19th. The reasons are declining social support and increased corruption (see Chapter 7) and it is these same factors that explain why the Nordic countries do so much better.

Figure 2.2: Ranking of Happiness 2014-2016 (Part 1)

  1. Norway (7.537)
  2. Denmark (7.522)
  3. Iceland (7.504)
  4. Switzerland (7.494)
  5. Finland (7.469)
  6. Netherlands (7.377)
  7. Canada (7.316)
  8. New Zealand (7.316)
  9. Australia (7.284)
  10. Sweden (7.284)
  11. Israel (7.213)
  12. Costa Rica (7.079)
  13. Austria (7.006)
  14. United States (6.993)
  15. Ireland (6.977)
  16. Germany (6.951)
  17. Belgium (6.891)
  18. Luxemburg (6.863)
  19. United Kingdom (6.714)
  20. Chile (6.652)
  21. United Arab Emerites (6.648)
  22. Brazil (6.635)
  23. Czech Republic (6.609)
  24. Argentina (6.599)
  25. Mexico (6.578)
  26. Singapore (6.572)
  27. Malta (6.527)
  28. Uruguay (6.454)
  29. Guatamala (6.454)
  30. France (6.442)
  31. Thailand (6.424)
  32. Taiwan Province of China (6.422)
  33. Spain (6.403)
  34. Qatar (6.375)
  35. Columbia (6.357)
  36. Saudi Arabia (6.344)
  37. Thailand and Tobago (6.168)
  38. Kuwait (6.105)
  39. Slovakia (6.098)

  40. Poland (5.973)

  41. Russia (5.963)

  42. Japan (5.920)

  43. Venezuela (5.250)

  44. Greece (5.227)

  45. Portugal (5.195)

So Venezuela did fall. I also picked countries where austerity was imposed (Spain, Greece, Portugal).

Countries with high degrees of social democratic policies -- such as universal health care and guaranteed minimum income -- still rank at the top.

The US fell some, the first country below 7, but I don't think we have the full impact of the Trump Kleptocracy effects. Especially when the new tax scam goes into effect.

It would be interesting to see countries graphed since the 2012 report.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by RAZD, posted 09-30-2017 10:05 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2017 3:52 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 25 of 50 (825769)
12-17-2017 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by RAZD
12-17-2017 12:16 PM


Re: Wealth -- what is it?
``Here's the results for 2016:

quote:
World Happiness Report 2016 Update

Figure 2.2: Ranking of Happiness 2013-2015 (Part 1)

  1. Denmark (7.526)
  2. Switzerland (7.509)
  3. Iceland (7.501)
  4. Norway (7.498)
  5. Finland (7.413)
  6. Canada (7.404)
  7. Netherlands (7.339)
  8. New Zealand (7.334)
  9. Australia (7.313)
  10. Sweden (7.291)
  11. Israel (7.267)
  12. Austria (7.119)
  13. United States (7.104)
  14. Costa Rica (7.087)
  15. Puerto Rico (7.039)
  16. Germany (6.994)
  17. Brazil (6.952)
  18. Belgium (6.929)
  19. Ireland (6.907)
  20. Luxembourg (6.871)
  21. Mexico (6.778)
  22. Singapore (6.739)
  23. United Kingdom (6.725)
  24. Chile (6.705)
  25. Panama (6.701)
  26. Argentina (6.650)
  27. Czech Republic (6.596)
  28. United Arab Emirates (6.573)
  29. Uruguay (6.545)
  30. Malta (6.488)
  31. Colombia (6.481)
  32. France (6.478)
  33. Thailand (6.474)
  34. Saudi Arabia (6.379)
  35. Taiwan (6.379)
  36. Qatar (6.375)
  37. Spain (6.361)
  38. Algeria (6.355)
  39. Guatemala (6.324)
  40. Suriname (6.269)
  41. Kuwait (6.239)
  42. Bahrain (6.218)
  43. Trinidad and Tobago (6.168)
  44. Venezuela (6.084)
  45. Slovakia (6.078)
  46. El Salvador (6.068)
  47. Malaysia (6.005)
  48. Nicaragua (5.992)
  49. Uzbekistan (5.987)
  50. Italy (5.977)
  51. Ecuador (5.976)
  52. Belize (5.956)
  53. Japan (5.921)

  54. Russia (5.856)
  55. Poland (5.835)

  56. Portugal (5.123)

  57. Greece (5.033)

Costa Rica moved up above US in placement, but 2016 report scored lower (was 7.087, 7.079 in 2017 report)

US went from 7.104 in 2016 report to 6.993 in 2017 report.

Russia, Poland, Greece, Venezuela and Portugal all moved up from 2016 report to 2017 report.

Puerto Rico dropped from 15th place (7.039 in 2016 report) to not being listed in the 2017.

Make what you want of the numbers.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2017 12:16 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by LamarkNewAge, posted 12-17-2017 10:04 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 28 of 50 (825801)
12-18-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by LamarkNewAge
12-17-2017 10:04 PM


Re: Wealth -- what is it? (what about health or spiritual issues?)
What about India?

It's listed in the reports. I haven't looked to evaluate their positions.

The black community of Alabama saw the fight against Roy Moore ...

Interestingly the "black belt" that began as good soil for cotton and became a depressed area of predominantly black people after the Civil War, continuing to today, voted overwhelming for Doug Jones, adding another overlay on the map.

Moral poverty must be considered, to some extent, a drag on lifespans and economic health.

This was part of the evaluation of the UN investigation of poverty in America.

See American Poverty -- UN envoy investigates

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : lnk


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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 Message 29 by jar, posted 12-18-2017 9:12 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
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Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 37 of 50 (825824)
12-18-2017 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by jar
12-18-2017 9:40 AM


Re: The Desirable direction.
Nicely done.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 38 of 50 (825849)
12-18-2017 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by jar
12-18-2017 9:12 AM


Re: The Desirable direction.
It seems to me that by adopting a Progressive Manor Estate society as our goal the US could create an orderly stable society where ever unit knows it's place and is valued and replace outmoded inefficient systems such as we use today with ones suited for the 21st Century and flexible enough to change rapidly based on actual hard real time evidence.

Indeed, and by carefully manipulating the value of the money in circulation they could ensure a 3% GDP growth every year, so the economic news would always be rosy, people could be given "cost of living" raises so that their earnings increased every year.

A job would be found for everyone, as there will always be cleanup needed, with anti-litter laws and campaigns managed to preserve the current levels so that job opportunities are provided, especially for the convict class task forces.

Rosy.

So when you wrote this you sat
ire pouring from your post at
republican economics
scams and dirty tricks
while rich greedy gluttons get fat


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 39 by LamarkNewAge, posted 12-21-2017 12:57 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 40 of 50 (826050)
12-21-2017 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by LamarkNewAge
12-21-2017 12:57 AM


Re: The Desirable direction.
Universal job training is a controversial issue, and homeless can't even get any training. It is considered a "waste".

Education is the best way to reduce recidivism of prison inmates, so republicans eliminated prison education programs.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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 Message 41 by NoNukes, posted 12-21-2017 9:14 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20156
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 43 of 50 (826058)
12-21-2017 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by jar
12-21-2017 9:33 AM


Re: The Desirable direction.
It is inline with the transformation of Colleges and Universities into Job Training Centers. People should get educated so they can be productive workers.

IIRC the reasoning was "why should they get a benefit, they are in jail to be punished"


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by jar, posted 12-21-2017 9:33 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by jar, posted 12-21-2017 7:19 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
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