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Author Topic:   Health 4 Life~The Science Behind Consumption
Genomicus
Member
Posts: 852
Joined: 02-15-2012


Message 106 of 123 (841868)
10-23-2018 2:08 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
10-21-2018 4:24 PM


Re: Science and Emotions
Of course, I don't believe that God was a creation of humans. I can never imagine letting go that much....because if God did not exist, reality itself is a cruel, uncaring, and harsh mistress...and gives no hope to anyone.

Reality just is. Perhaps it is your perception that needs adjusting, instead of patching up an uncomfortable view of reality with a god mythology.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 10-21-2018 4:24 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 11-06-2018 2:25 PM Genomicus has not yet responded
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 01-06-2019 6:31 PM Genomicus has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 107 of 123 (842730)
11-06-2018 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Genomicus
10-23-2018 2:08 AM


Update and Plans for 2019 and Beyond...
Perhaps it is your perception that needs adjusting, instead of patching up an uncomfortable view of reality with a god mythology.
Perhaps. When it comes to my health, I dont think about God much...I realize that I am the one responsible for my health and progress. So I weighed in at 217 this week. More exactly, my weight is on a spectrum between 217 and 211...I always use the highest number for my chart. I went and had a Dexa Scan.

My Numbers look better than they would have looked a month ago when I weighed 232, but they are on the high end.
Total Mass: 213.0 lbs.....Lean Mass: 146.5 lbs.......Tissue %Lean: 68.8%.....Fat Mass: 58.5 lbs.....Tissue %Fat 28.5%

So I am continuing this diet until I reach 18% body fat at the most...then continuing to eat basic low carb for the rest of my life, adding only healthy low glycemic vegetables back in to the mix in increasing amounts as I reach my goals...the real number that has to improve is my insulin resistance.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Genomicus, posted 10-23-2018 2:08 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Phat, posted 12-02-2018 11:38 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 108 of 123 (844577)
12-02-2018 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Phat
11-06-2018 2:25 PM


Re: Update and Plans for 2019 and Beyond...
More developments, and my current belief and opinion:

For many years, I was on insulin. This was by choice, as I reasoned back then that without supplemental insulin, my pancreas would eventually burn out. My doctor at that time simply went along with my theory---obviously, neither one of us understood the science behind all of it. Now here it is nearly 2019. I was informed last week that I will need a Vitrectomy. My eyes have been affected by proliferative retinopathy, and the eye surgeon told me that without this I will eventually become blind in one eye. I have always been stubborn in regards to my deciding how to manage my health, and it may yet be the death of me...but that is my character. I will say, however, that I study up on this stuff more than I used to do. Stay tuned as I enter 2019 and attempt to juggle my faith, spiritual belief, and passion for life while accepting fully the science behind the reality of my health.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Phat, posted 11-06-2018 2:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 109 of 123 (845634)
12-18-2018 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
07-23-2017 9:09 AM


Fasting: An Ancient Solution for Modern Problems
This week I am undergoing a 3 day medically supervised fast. Water only. I started at noon on Monday, and will plan on ending it at my Doctor appointment at noon on Thursday. You may be interested in the medical benefits of fasting on inflammatory diseases such as the one that you struggle with.
I am off of work for two of the three days, and have been advised to get blood work done and to followup with my Doctor on Thursday.

The fast will be broken with bone broth and specific foods in a limited intake.

I can hear Tangle bemoaning the soundness of such an approach, but have researched this practice enough to have asked my Doctor about whether it would help my diabetes. He gave me the green light provided that I don't work, get adequate rest, and follow up with an appointment. I have just passed the 20 hour mark of a planned 72 hour fast. Stay tuned.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 07-23-2017 9:09 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Phat, posted 12-23-2018 8:15 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 110 of 123 (845934)
12-23-2018 8:15 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
12-18-2018 9:23 AM


Re: Fasting: An Ancient Solution for Modern Problems
I finished my fast! I was able to go 3 days and 6 hours (78 hours total...water only) and could have gone longer but felt ready to resume eating. I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to work with the same energy which I needed to have at work. I saw my Doctor on the 3rd day of the fast and he did blood work, which I will find out the results of next week. One thing I know for sure...my swelling in my legs disappeared and I feel great! I resumed eating carefully, according to expert suggestions from people who know these things.

Though it can be misused, fasting is a natural technique that causes healthy autophagy, increases growth hormone and stem cells, and allows the body to repair itself. It is also great for autoimmune diseases. Always have a Doctor aware of your efforts and allow him to monitor you.

My weight chart so far:
BODY MASS INDEX(BMI)
Normal weight = 18.5–24.9 GOAL: solid 205 by December 30th
Overweight = 25–29.9
Obesity = BMI of 30 or greater Starting Weight: 228-232=230 Est BMI=29.5
Weigh-In: Actual weight: starting A1C: 9.1 (13th)
16 Sep 2018 228
23 Sep 2018 227
30 Sep 2018 225
07 Oct 2018 224
14 Oct 2018 221
21 Oct 2018 217
28 Oct 2018 219
04 Nov 2018 217
11 Nov 2018 220
18 Nov 2018 218
25 Nov 2018 216
02 Dec 2018 214
09 Dec 2018 215
16 Dec 2018 212
23 Dec 2018 3 day fast. Weight at Doctors: 207!
(210 with water normalized)
Ending A1C: 8%!! My goal was under 6%. The battle is real.

My health feels better, but the ravages of diabetes are apparent. My eye needs an operation due to years of high insulins and sugars.(proliferative retinopathy) My feet are numb, though the fast made them hurt far less. (neuropathy)
So far my kidneys are ok, but I am taking my diet seriously now. I aim to keep my blood sugars at 6% or less for the rest of my life.

The experts say that the nerve damage is irreversible, but if anything can heal me (aside from prayer) medically supervised fasting might help. It certainly cant hurt, according to the research I have conducted.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : added A1C results


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 12-18-2018 9:23 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 111 of 123 (846457)
01-06-2019 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Genomicus
10-23-2018 2:08 AM


patching up reality with a god mythology
Genomicus writes:

Perhaps it is your perception that needs adjusting, instead of patching up an uncomfortable view of reality with a god mythology.

These days, I view reality much more soberly than I have done in the past. many of us at EvC have health issues, as most of us old timers here are over 50. When I first found out that my microvascular complications were becoming reality, my first instinct was to turn to God for help. My belief is (still) that my wisdom ultimately comes from Him, though I am realizing more and more that it is I that needs to initiate the lifestyle changes that facilitate healing in my body. I have done two fasts. The first was a 3 day one and the second, recently completed, a 2 day one.

The science that I have been studying is so sensible that I will reprint this article here for discussion:

Dr.Jason Fung writes:

What exactly is insulin resistance? One of insulin’s jobs is to help move glucose from the blood into the cells for energy. When blood glucose remains elevated despite normal or high levels of insulin, this is called insulin resistance. The cells are resisting insulin’s pleas to take up glucose. But why is this happening? What causes insulin resistance?

The current paradigm of understanding insulin resistance is the ‘lock and key’ model. The hormone insulin acts upon a cell surface receptor to do its job. The insulin receptor is like a lock keeping the gates to the cell closed. Insulin is like the proper key. When inserted, the gate opens to let glucose from the blood inside the cell for energy. Once you remove the key (insulin), the gate closes back up and blood glucose can no longer enter the cell.
During the phenomenon of insulin resistance, we imagine that the lock and key no longer fit together very well. The key (insulin) only partially opens the lock (receptor) and not very easily. Glucose cannot pass through the gate normally, and as a result, less gets into the cell. The blood glucose piles up outside the gate, becoming detectable as the clinical diagnosis of type 2 diabetes is made.

Because the cell has less glucose inside, this has been described as a state of ‘internal starvation’. The body’s knee-jerk reaction is to increase insulin production. Since each key works efficiently, the body compensates by producing more keys than usual. This hyperinsulinemia ensures that enough glucose gets into the cells to meet its energy requirement. A nice, neat theory. Too bad it has no basis in reality.

First, is the problem the key (insulin), or the lock (insulin receptor)? It’s quite easy these days to determine the molecular structure of both insulin and the insulin receptor. Comparing type 2 diabetic patients with normal patients, it immediately becomes clear that there is nothing wrong with either the insulin or the receptor. So what’s the deal?

If both the key and lock look normal, then the only remaining possibility is that there is something that is gumming up the mechanism. Some kind of blocker interferes with the interaction of the lock and key. But what?

Here’s where the trouble starts. All kinds of theories try to explain what is blocking the insulin. Without a clear understanding of what caused the insulin resistance, we have no chance of treating it. All the usual buzzwords come out when doctors and researchers have no real clue as to what is going on. Inflammation. Oxidative Stress. Free Radicals.

While these may sound impressive, they merely reflect our ignorance, shedding no light upon the root cause of insulin resistance. These are all cop-out answers. Inflammation, like oxidative stress and free radicals, are merely non-specific response to injury. But what causes the injury in the first place? That’s the real problem that needs to be solved.

Imagine that we are battlefield surgeons. After several decades experience, we deduce that blood is bad for health. After all, every time we see blood, bad things are happening. When we don’t see blood, bad things are not happening. Therefore, blood is dangerous. So, deciding that blood is what is killing people, we invent a machine to suction blood out of people before it can cause illness. In medieval times, of course, leeches were used. Genius!

The problem, of course, is what’s causing the bleeding, rather than the blood itself. Look for the root cause. Bleeding’s only the response, not the cause. Bleeding is a marker for disease. So are inflammation, oxidative stress, free radicals and all the other typical answers.

Gunshots, knife wounds, and shrapnel all cause bleeding, the body’s non-specific response. Those are root causes. When you get shot, you bleed. But the problem is the gunshot, not the bleeding. The blood is a marker for the disease, rather than the disease itself.

Fever is another example of a non-specific response to infection and injury. Fever is a good marker for infection. When we find a fever, there is often an underlying infection. But the fever did not cause the infection. Bacteria or viruses are the underlying cause.

he same logic applies to inflammation, oxidative stress and free radicals. Something is causing injury, which stimulates inflammation, oxidative stress and free radical formation, which are all the body’s non-specific response. The problem is whatever caused injury, not the inflammation, oxidative stress and inflammation, which is simply markers of disease.

If inflammation were actually the root cause of heart disease, for example, then anti-inflammatory medications, such as prednisone or non-steroidal anti-inflammatories would be effective in reducing heart disease. But they are not beneficial at all. They are only useful for those diseases where excess inflammation is truly the root cause, such as asthma, rheumatoid arthritis, or lupus.

The exact same logic applies to oxidative stress, which is a marker of disease, but not a causal factor. Some underlying injury is causing the oxidative stress, which needs to be treated. This is the reason why antioxidant therapy is so startlingly ineffective. Vitamin C, or E or N-acetylcysteine or other antioxidant therapies, when tested rigorously, fail to prevent disease.

Saying that, “Insulin resistance is caused by inflammation” is like saying, “gunshot wounds are caused by bleeding”. Not useful. However, inflammation, bleeding and fever are all useful markers of disease and treatment efficacy. They mark the presence of the disease. If the fever breaks, then the treatment (antibiotic) is highly likely to be effective. Inflammatory markers can also be good markers for the effectiveness of treatment. If insulin therapy decreases inflammation, then this is likely an effective treatment. Sadly, it does not.

Without understanding the root cause of insulin resistance, we have no hope of properly treating it. This lock and key model with ‘internal starvation’ is a nice story but cannot explain many of the phenomena observed in type 2 diabetes. In particular, it fails to explain the central paradox of insulin resistance.

Recall that insulin normally goes up when you eat. Insulin acts predominantly in the liver to help store incoming food energy. Insulin instructs the liver to do two things.

Stop making new glucose from its stores
Switch to storage mode to produce glycogen. When full, produce new fat via De Novo Lipogenesis (DNL)
In a state of high insulin resistance, such as type 2 diabetes, both actions of insulin should be simultaneously blunted. This certainly hold true for the first action of insulin. Insulin yells at the liver to stop making new glucose, but the liver continues to pump it out. Glucose spills out into the blood, provoking the body to increase insulin levels.

In an insulin resistant state, the second action of insulin should also be blunted, but is paradoxically enhanced. Using the old lock and key paradigm, the insulin resistant liver does not allow glucose through the gate leading to ‘internal starvation’. In this circumstance, the liver cannot create new fat and DNL should shut down. But in fact, DNL not only continues and actually increases. So insulin’s effect is not blunted but accelerated!

In fact, there is so much new fat being generated, that there is nowhere to put it. This leads to excess accumulation of fat inside the liver, where there normally should be none. Liver fat should be low, not high. But type 2 diabetes is strongly associated with excessive fat accumulation in the liver.

How can the liver selectively resist one of insulin’s effect of insulin yet accelerate the other? This happens in the very same cell, in response to the very same levels of insulin, with the very same insulin receptor. This makes no sense whatsoever. Insulin sensitivity is reduced and enhanced at the exact same time and in the exact same place!

Despite decades of ongoing research and millions of dollars, all the world’s top researchers were still stumped by this central paradox of insulin resistance. Research papers were written. Different hypotheses were proposed, but all failed because the old ‘lock and key’ paradigm of insulin resistance with internal starvation was incorrect. Like a house built on a crumbling foundation, the entire underlying premise of treatment of type 2 diabetes disintegrated.

How can we explain this apparent paradox? The vital clue is that insulin itself causes insulin resistance. The primary problem is not the insulin resistance, but the hyperinsulinemia.

Insulin resistance refers to the fact that for a given amount of insulin, it is more difficult to move glucose into the cell. But this does not necessarily mean that the gate is jammed. There are other possibilities why glucose cannot get into that resistant cell. Perhaps the glucose cannot enter the cell because it is already overflowing. The new paradigm of insulin resistance as an overflow phenomenon resolves the central paradox.

This changes EVERYTHING. If you believe the old ‘lock and key/ internal cellular starvation’ model, then the appropriate treatment is to increase insulin as much as needed to push that pesky glucose into the cell. That has been the way we have treated type 2 diabetes for the last 50 years. And it’s been a complete disaster. The ACCORD/ ADVANCE/ VADT/ TECOS/ SAVIOR/ ORIGIN randomized controlled trials all proved the failure of this paradigm.

However, if the ‘overflow’ paradigm is correct, then increasing insulin to push more glucose into an overflowing cell is EXACTLY wrong! This would only make diabetes worse. Which is EXACTLY what we see clinically. As we prescribe insulin to type 2 diabetes, patients don’t get better, they get worse. Their blood glucose is better, but they gain weight and they still develop all the complications – heart disease, stroke, kidney disease, blindness etc.

The correct treatment of the overflow paradigm is to empty out the BODY, not just the blood of the excessive glucose. How? LCHF and intermittent fasting. And guess what? That’s EXACTLY what we see clinically. As we start fasting type 2 diabetes patients, they lose weight, their medication requirements go down and eventually it reverses.


Jason Fung

dr.Fung is in my opinion absolutely correct. 100% on the mark! I intuitively know that he is right...I have seen his scenarios and hypothesis play out in my own body and as I lose the weight...FINALLY! I hope to God that I'm not too late...but with stage 4 proliferative retinopathy, diabetic neuropathy in my feet, and hints of kidney trouble ahead, I need to not only follow the science...I NEED TO PRAY! It would be a depressing life to be an amputee on dialysis motoring in a hoveround all day. So I continue to fight for my health.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Genomicus, posted 10-23-2018 2:08 AM Genomicus has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Lammy, posted 01-09-2019 2:48 PM Phat has responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 112 of 123 (846604)
01-09-2019 2:48 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Phat
01-06-2019 6:31 PM


Re: patching up reality with a god mythology
Hey, yo, please update us on how your fast is going and how you feel.

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 01-06-2019 6:31 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2019 3:37 PM Lammy has responded
 Message 119 by Phat, posted 01-25-2019 2:20 PM Lammy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 113 of 123 (846605)
01-09-2019 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Lammy
01-09-2019 2:48 PM


An Honest Rant As To How I Feel
Thanks for caring, Lambo. You asked for it tho---my opportunity to vent!
Health is, of course, both mental and physical. The weight of the reality of this operation is quite stressful. The financial aspect is alone killing me---my union just switched insurance companies at the beginning of this year, (from Cigna to United Health Care) and getting preauthorized and having quotes thrown at me over what *may* be and may not be covered (they have a disclaimer...no guarantee of benefits until bill is actually presented) so the doctor is roughly 6000.00-8000.00, the surgery center likely similar, and the anesthesiologist to boot! Add to that the fact that our union contract is up January 12th, though im still covered one month ahead of that date. All in all I'm looking at $15,000.00 in bills of which the insurance should cover 80%, and then we have the eye injection on January 14th (Avastin) and then we have the operation itself on January 22nd, and 10 days face down for 24 hours a day to recover.

So I got in a 3-day fast last month, a 2 day fast this month, and have yet to do a longer fast before this all takes place...but if I do, it will happen tomorrow. I suppose I'm blessed to have this union job though...I will get paid time off to recover. Negotiations look dicey thus far though....the grocery industry is changing with delivery, instacart shoppers, and scan & pay. The corporations may try and reduce something major before this is all over. Life is tough for Phat right now. Years ago, I thought that I would age gracefully with adequate retirement money. Now, I'm struggling with reality. I either fight or die, I suppose. Stay tuned....


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Lammy, posted 01-09-2019 2:48 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by Lammy, posted 01-09-2019 8:38 PM Phat has responded
 Message 116 by NosyNed, posted 01-24-2019 9:50 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 114 of 123 (846656)
01-09-2019 8:38 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
01-09-2019 3:37 PM


Re: An Honest Rant As To How I Feel
That's what we are here for. Rant away, Phat!

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2019 3:37 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 7:46 AM Lammy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 115 of 123 (847605)
01-24-2019 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Lammy
01-09-2019 8:38 PM


I made it
Im happy and blessed to report that i made it through my operation on tuesday with no psin and no need for facedown medical equipment. I am recovering well and even am having a fast to speed healing. (Theu said it was ok provided i drink lots of water)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Lammy, posted 01-09-2019 8:38 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Lammy, posted 01-24-2019 10:22 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8830
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 116 of 123 (847607)
01-24-2019 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Phat
01-09-2019 3:37 PM


Interesting Contrast
I'm glad you've done well.

There is something interesting I see in this that has nothing to do with you really.

2 years ago I had rather major surgery (right hemicolonectomy).
Other friends (we are old after all) have had other things including heart transplant.

At no time, in any discussion of our problems did one mention of cost, payments or insurance arise, ever.

I pay the government about $30 US a month for insurance. I pay that because I make too much money to get it for nothing.

Of course, we pay the rest in taxes. I don't recall anyone complaining about it. I pay more because I am better off than the average. Most of my friends are. Never, EVER has a single person (including a couple who pay really larger amounts of taxes) complained about the poor getting a free ride with medical costs.

Overall we pay something like half as much for medical as you do in the US with this system.

That the US as a whole considers it ok to allow someone to die of being poor is disgusting and I'm sure many in other countries feel the same way.

Our medical care (over all, not just for the rich) is better than the US by the statistics I've seen. Every time I've needed care it has been available in a timely manor. I've had to wait weeks for a specialist appointment in some cases but it wasn't urgent.

Just a note that you immersed in your system should give some thought to.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Phat, posted 01-09-2019 3:37 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by Lammy, posted 01-24-2019 10:34 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 117 of 123 (847609)
01-24-2019 10:22 AM
Reply to: Message 115 by Phat
01-24-2019 7:46 AM


Re: I made it
Congrats! Feel better.

If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Phat, posted 01-24-2019 7:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

    
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


(3)
Message 118 of 123 (847610)
01-24-2019 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by NosyNed
01-24-2019 9:50 AM


Re: Interesting Contrast
I pretty much have given up on trying to explain to people here in the US the benefits of a system like the one in Canada. We have too many right wing assholes in our country.

What really irritates the hell out of me is the right wingers who are poor and are on food stamps and such. I know a few of them. They always rant on and on about how rich people are being squeezed and that we need to protect the rich from socialism. I absolutely don't understand why they think the rich need help?

I have a brother that is well off. He owns dozens of properties. One of those has it's own private dock and a boat. He's got 7 harleys for whatever reason. Mid-life crisis I guess. He did well before the recession, even better during the recession, and even better than that nowadays. Someone like him doesn't need any help. He will do well no matter what happens to the economy.

And yet, these financially poor conservatives are always crying to protect rich people like my brother. I don't understand it. Do they hope to become rich themselves one day? They call a billionaire like Trump "man of the people". What the hell is wrong with them?

Anyway, that's my rant for today.

Oh yeah, just in case someone accuses me of being a "Leech" to have such an attitude, my husband and I are doing well for ourselves. We both have professional jobs and we also own a company. I'm not saying this out of jealousy/envy at the rich. I really do believe the country will do well if we take care of our most vulnerable.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by NosyNed, posted 01-24-2019 9:50 AM NosyNed has not yet responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12049
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 119 of 123 (847698)
01-25-2019 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Lammy
01-09-2019 2:48 PM


5 Day Fast Begins Today
Lammy writes:

Hey, yo, please update us on how your fast is going and how you feel.

Now that my eye has repaired itself and my collagen has been boosted due to supplementation with vitamin C and Bio Sil. I have started a fast last night that I plan on taking at least 5 days.....my body can use the overhaul...I'll keep a diary of this experience here. This is Day One. No discomfort yet.Only that I am fighting my urges to eat (carbs)

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Lammy, posted 01-09-2019 2:48 PM Lammy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Lammy, posted 01-26-2019 12:20 PM Phat has responded

  
Lammy
Member
Posts: 3607
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 120 of 123 (847768)
01-26-2019 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 119 by Phat
01-25-2019 2:20 PM


Re: 5 Day Fast Begins Today
Having done several fasts for health reasons, I can say that (at least for me) emotional hunger is a million times more potent than physical hunger.

See, dealing with physical hunger is easy. Just drink lots and lots of water. But the emotional hunger is there regardless of what you do.

Have fun


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Phat, posted 01-25-2019 2:20 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 01-26-2019 1:11 PM Lammy has not yet responded

    
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