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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 34 of 894 (818596)
08-30-2017 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:03 PM


Gimme Shelter
RR writes:

Fact, humans thought that the world was flat was fact. I am always amazed at how closed minded everyone here really is. jar is just an atheist kiss ass, who never really says things of substance, well at least not yet until better evidence is available.

In my opinion, (as long as we are gossipping) jar is less worried about the atheists at EvC than he is about the Christians.(Ones who call themselves Christian)

I suppose it's good that prayers are happening.

Did you hear that Houston and the media are mad at Joel Osteen? Seems they were pressuring him to do the good thing and open up his church as an emergency shelter. I'm sure he has a sound reason why he did not do this.

He will probably say that he is donating resources/money another way.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:03 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:45 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 12:08 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 117 of 894 (818918)
09-04-2017 7:22 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Porkncheese
09-04-2017 7:15 AM


PnC killing time
jar and riverrat are two old members here. jar and I often argue about the same things numerous times. Rat has been gone from the forum for a couple of years and only recently came back, so he knows the drill around here... jar will never agree with you but only clarify and reframe the basic argument presented. Gotta love him!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Porkncheese, posted 09-04-2017 7:15 AM Porkncheese has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by jar, posted 09-04-2017 8:03 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 118 of 894 (818919)
09-04-2017 7:24 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:43 PM


Conversations With A Cornered Rat
RR writes:

It's just the same old sad tired story in this forum. Liberal debate tactics. Keep arguing and talking until something doesn't jive and then say "there, see I told you". But by then you are so far off topic, it is invalid and has nothing to do with it.

How has your life been away from here, anyway? Do you still fly the model airplanes?

What made you come back to this frustrating place anyway? (Yeah we missed you)


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:43 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:50 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 298 of 894 (819440)
09-11-2017 7:51 AM
Reply to: Message 297 by jar
09-11-2017 7:20 AM


There are a large percentage of people that believe this
This poll is 3 years old, but the statistics appear to change little from year to year.
In U.S., 42% Believe Creationist View of Human Origins
quote:
PRINCETON, NJ -- More than four in 10 Americans continue to believe that God created humans in their present form 10,000 years ago, a view that has changed little over the past three decades. Half of Americans believe humans evolved, with the majority of these saying God guided the evolutionary process. However, the percentage who say God was not involved is rising.

The poll shows that Faith is not lying. She is describing the beliefs of many of the conservative fundamentalist or conservative charismatic Christians. I know a bunch of them. They argue with me over things much as Faith does here.
here is one such exchange (on facebook) between one of my best friends---a man who works with the homeless and serves in soup kitchens here in Denver:

quote:

I started our conversation by providing the following link: Why Some Conservatives Can’t Accept That Climate Change Is Real

Friend: Climate change is a created catastrophe by HAARP & NASA! But the fact still remains its made up even if they have figured out how to mess with the weather because what's really going on right now is what the bible explains as the birth pains of the earth or the beginning of sorrows in matthew 24

Me: You confirm everything this article says.
Im not doubting the Bible, but I am claiming that many conservatives live in a fairy tale land of alternative "facts"....but there is no way I would ever convince you...Why do you think Hurricane Irma is the biggest Atlantic storm ever recorded? Global warming makes bigger hurricanes...

Friend: No God said it would happen dork, you'd rather read some crap satanic liberals post and believe it but when it comes to the words of Jesus you dont believe.(...)Global warming is what the liberals made up cause they are trying to control the weather to control people and get them to accept the antichrist & nwo and HAARP is trying to make that happen



Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 297 by jar, posted 09-11-2017 7:20 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 302 by jar, posted 09-11-2017 8:23 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 301 of 894 (819444)
09-11-2017 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 294 by Faith
09-11-2017 2:36 AM


Re: Capitulating to the truth is the real mistake?
I believe you, Faith. I may not agree with many of the literalist Biblical believers, but I wont go so far as to say that they are definitely wrong. One of the preachers whom I respect, Francis Chan, posted an interesting sermon which I shall share with you:

Francis Chan: How to Make Yourself Immune to the Mark of the Beast

I'm not sure if I can allow myself to believe this stuff, but I also wont insist that its all an illusion. If it is proven that the educated secular mindset in this country is wrong, the world surely will have gone mad. I want you to know that I dont disrespect you for what you believe concerning the Bible.

I agree with Tangle, however, in that "You have to defend your belief to yourself using any rationalization you can find. Almost like you've not got the confidence to simply believe, you also have to find a way to prove to yourself that your belief is right despite all the evidence." I realize that your health is not all that great and that the cognitive dissonance at believing science and denying your faith and belief would be too great of a strain on you.

And God only knows that you and my friend may be right in the final scheme of things. Many of my literalist Christian friends warn me to not try and change what the bible actually says. Perhaps I am wrong for being on the fence, but I cannot deny logic, reason, and reality.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 294 by Faith, posted 09-11-2017 2:36 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 312 by Faith, posted 09-11-2017 10:55 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 304 of 894 (819447)
09-11-2017 8:33 AM
Reply to: Message 302 by jar
09-11-2017 8:23 AM


Re: There are a large percentage of people that believe this
jar writes:

I know she is not lying about what she and many others believe. I have mentioned the Christian Cult of Ignorance at least once before IIRC.

That does not change the fact that it is a system based on lies; lies about the Bible lies about God, lies about reality. If you want any evidence of Satanic influence you need look no further than the Christianity you describe.

It is hard for us to admit that we believe but we could be wrong.

I still think that if there is another war, it will be caused by an economic collapse here in America. An end times tribulation type of event could ironically be a self-fulfilling prophecy supported by a large percentage of Biblical Literalist believers

I trust that Jesus is alive and will get me through any cognitive dissonance concerning the future. I try and focus on my mental health at the moment---I'm not going to worry about the future, but I can honestly say that if my retirement money ever gets wiped out, I might go crazy. I have been influenced heavily by our conversations the past ten years, but I won't accept that the Bible could all be just a story created by humans---with the Jesus described being little more than a character.

Getting back on topic, though. Science thrives on evidence. This logically makes sense. There is no evidence of a global flood. A global flood is either simply a parable or a belief. IF God actually caused such an event, the evidence has been hidden....but for what reason?

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 302 by jar, posted 09-11-2017 8:23 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by jar, posted 09-11-2017 9:22 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 310 by Faith, posted 09-11-2017 10:48 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 306 of 894 (819450)
09-11-2017 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 305 by jar
09-11-2017 9:22 AM


Re: There are a large percentage of people that believe this
Phat writes:

There is no evidence of a global flood. A global flood is either simply a parable or a belief. IF God actually caused such an event, the evidence has been hidden....but for what reason?

jar writes:

Wrong question. We can never know a reason so the question is a waste of time.

Right question: Why would or should anyone ever trust such a deceitful dishonest, genocidal God?

Perhaps some people insist on believing in the flood---as well as a literal Bible in general--because they have cognitive dissonance regarding Gods intentions for humanity.

I have been told (and taught) that it is vital to believe in an inerrant literal Bible.

Due to many of the conversations here, as well as deductive reasoning, I have rejected that belief...though admit that I could be wrong. I have to go with logic, reason, and reality until it is proven wrong.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 305 by jar, posted 09-11-2017 9:22 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 307 by jar, posted 09-11-2017 10:08 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 308 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2017 10:24 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 311 of 894 (819457)
09-11-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Faith
09-11-2017 10:48 AM


Re: There are a large percentage of people that believe this
If what you say is true, why is it that 90% of scientists dont see the evidence that you see? Do you believe what my friend does---that there is a vast conspiracy coupled with massive denial?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Faith, posted 09-11-2017 10:48 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 313 by PaulK, posted 09-11-2017 11:02 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 314 by Faith, posted 09-11-2017 11:03 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 344 of 894 (819513)
09-12-2017 9:02 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Percy
09-12-2017 7:54 AM


Psychology Study: Does Flood=Jesus?
I've been watching this exchange of words, emotions, and an imaginary ping pong match on what evidence actually is.

In defense of Faith, I feel that she strongly believes that if secular folks were honest within themselves, they would believe that a global flood (Hint: Bible=Truth=Jesus) is a potential reality.

In other words, Faiths internalized method of evangelizing is to preach creationism. (Correct me if I'm wrong, Faith) That's the only answer that I've come up with regarding her insistence that there is evidence.

I, on the other hand, have never had a problem with belief in a living Christ uncoupled with a literal belief in a word for word Genesis. Mind you, many of my biblical literalist friends, Pastors, and church acquaintances would disagree with my assessment.

They might be right in the final analysis (and trumpet) and I might be wrong. Which would, of course, mean that all of us were wrong. I respect the discipline of science because I respect a lot of you and what you do and what you have learned. Similarly, I respect many of my conservative Biblical Literalist friends and Pastors because of what they do.

As for my own personal beliefs? They are full of more questions than answers...but I trust that Jesus loves all of us and wants the best for us.

Add by edit:

Faith writes:

It's a matter of honest seeing, as I said But that isn't going to happen is it?

Tell them specifically what it is that you want them to see, Faith.

Edited by Phat, : added point


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Percy, posted 09-12-2017 7:54 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 346 by NoNukes, posted 09-12-2017 9:25 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 348 by jar, posted 09-12-2017 9:35 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 352 by PaulK, posted 09-12-2017 9:59 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 353 by Stile, posted 09-12-2017 10:00 AM Thugpreacha has responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 345 of 894 (819514)
09-12-2017 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 343 by Percy
09-12-2017 7:54 AM


Lets Define What Evidence Is
Percy, replying to Faith writes:

You're not even honest enough to discuss evidence of the flood in a thread titled Evidence of the flood.

For the record, let's define precisely what evidence is and is not. Can everyone list their interpretation of the definition?

Edited by Phat, : sub title


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 343 by Percy, posted 09-12-2017 7:54 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by PaulK, posted 09-12-2017 10:12 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 356 by Stile, posted 09-12-2017 10:30 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
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Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 350 of 894 (819519)
09-12-2017 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by jar
09-12-2017 9:35 AM


Re: Psychology Study: Does Flood=Jesus?
Ken Ham is responsible for a lot of this controversy. I know that you think he is another Christian con-man, but i dont know him nor his ministry well enough to judge that. What I do know is what he says...it is plainly available right here on the internet.
The Necessity for Believing in Six Literal Days

Ham seems to believe that Biblical word for word literalism is necessary in order to believe (and not doubt) that Jesus is alive and is God. He quotes: If we allow our children to accept the possibility that we can doubt the days of creation when the language speaks so plainly, then we are teaching them a particular approach to all of Scripture. Why shouldn’t they then start to doubt that Christ’s Virgin Birth really means a virgin birth? Why shouldn’t they start to doubt that the Resurrection really means resurrection?

You have presented another approach to reading the Bible and so, of course, disagree with Ken Ham. We here at EvC may trust you more because you have nothing to sell or gain from your words. You always taught me that doubt was healthy. I personally prefer to use the phrase "To Question" rather than "To Doubt"...because in matters of faith and belief, a man who does not stand for something will fall for anything!

But I will agree that the focus of this particular thread is on evidence rather than faith and belief.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by jar, posted 09-12-2017 9:35 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by jar, posted 09-12-2017 9:56 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 354 of 894 (819523)
09-12-2017 10:07 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by Stile
09-12-2017 10:00 AM


Re: No lies, just a difference of context
Looking through our archives, I came upon this PNT (which was never promoted) from our now deceased member Buzsaw. What Constitutes By Definition, Evidence Of Supernatural Phenomena

His basic definition of evidence was

quote:
1. A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis

Much of our disagreement concerning evolution vs creationism focuses on what evidence is and is not. As for my own definition of evidence? In a Forum such as this, much of my perception of evidence relies on the character of the one posting, coupled with the argument that they lay out. If the argument makes sense, I will consider that to be subjective evidence.

Thus I agree with your assessment, Stile. You hit the nail on the head.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Stile, posted 09-12-2017 10:00 AM Stile has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 405 of 894 (819596)
09-13-2017 8:13 AM
Reply to: Message 403 by Percy
09-13-2017 8:06 AM


Back To The Definition Of Evidence
To her credit, she is EvC Forums lone representative of Biblical Creationism. The others come and go, but Faith is of this writing our second most prolific poster only to jar.

I am still waiting for everyone to clarify what exactly evidence is.

I figure that there is a scientific definition, which I can easily look up and then an alternative facts explanation for the other side.

Perhaps that definition would be something along the lines of subjectivity.

Comments?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 403 by Percy, posted 09-13-2017 8:06 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 409 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 8:40 AM Thugpreacha has responded
 Message 429 by ringo, posted 09-13-2017 3:31 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 407 of 894 (819598)
09-13-2017 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by NoNukes
09-12-2017 9:48 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
NN writes:

The existence of God is not provable or disprovable by philosophy or science.

Perhaps some believe that the existence of a global flood Had to have happened and therefore spend a lot of time and energy constructing alternate facts and scenarios. Personally, I would go bonkers trying to do this...

But I have to hand it to Faith that she puts so much time into it. She once claimed that she no longer had the energy to do certain things, but the voluminous quantity of sentences that she puts out would compile several term papers per year!

Again, in a larger context, this is also what is happening to us politically. There is always now an alternate view and another side to reality.

Im still waiting for the alternate explanation of the evidence, however.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by NoNukes, posted 09-12-2017 9:48 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12587
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 410 of 894 (819601)
09-13-2017 8:50 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by jar
09-13-2017 8:40 AM


Re: Back To The Definition Of Evidence
Perhaps Faith has an alternative definition of evidence.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 8:40 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 411 by jar, posted 09-13-2017 8:58 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
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