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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 2 of 899 (818500)
08-29-2017 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
08-29-2017 5:03 PM


nope

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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 20 of 899 (818543)
08-30-2017 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
08-29-2017 5:03 PM


and when it is a forest fire instead of a flood?
The same kind of behavior is seen in response to forest fires.

But for some reason creationists don't correlate that with the works of god/s

Why is that?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 83 of 899 (818829)
09-03-2017 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
09-02-2017 7:46 PM


Re: No flood: the earth is very very very old
Gosh how you trust your unprovable dates.

See Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 again, Faith. Remember where you can't show any errors or mistakes or alternate fantasy that explains all the correlations?

Try the new edition: The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 1) followed by The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 2) and the soon to be released The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 3)

There is massive objective empirical evidence that the earth is very very very old, so much that it is easy to compile numerous dating methods that rely on simple counting to validate the dates, and numerous enough to show consilience of results from the different methods, consilience that would not be possible unless they all measure the same thing: accurate old age.

And in those various methods is evidence that a global flood never happened in their age range ... covering millions of years

All you have is denial.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 7:46 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 8:23 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 09-03-2017 11:33 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 84 of 899 (818831)
09-03-2017 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by RAZD
09-03-2017 7:20 AM


3 living trees alone show NO flood at 4350 ya
4350 ya would be circa 2330 BCE ...

From The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 1), Message 3:

quote:
  • the "Methuselah" tree(1), with a minimum germination date of 2832 BCE
  • the "Prometheus" tree(2) (aka WPN-114), with a measured age of 4862 when cut down in 1964 for research, however this is a minimum age because the core of the tree is missing, giving it a minimum germination date of 2898 BCE (but likely older).
  • the "Schulman's" tree(3) (my name for the tree because Edmund Schulman took the core samples and he was a pioneer in dendrochronology in the area), with a minimum germination date of 3051 BCE
  • the "Ancient Sentinels"(4) - standing dead trees, as old as 7,000 years, however we have no information on their germination or termination dates at this point.

The "Methuselah" tree is older by ~500 years
The "Prometheus" tree was ~530 years older when cut down over 50 years ago
The "Schulman" tree is older by ~600 years

Dead wood lying on the ground is older yet, and it did not float away in any global flood.

Science never absolutely proves things, but it does disprove things. Things that are false or invalid. The evidence of these three trees alone disproves a global flood in the last 5,000 years, and make any belief in such a flood within that time period a laughable delusional fantasy.

And that is just the beginning of what the objective empirical evidence of age shows.

A young earth? Forgetaboutit. Also disproved by trees.

The earth is not flat
The earth is not the center of the solar system
The earth is not the center of the milky way galaxy
The earth is not the center of the universe

The earth is very, very, very old: get used to it.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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to share.


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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 95 of 899 (818849)
09-03-2017 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:51 AM


Re: On topic
... If a flood had started, animals have been observed to seek shelter with humans. This is evidence that part of the story could be true. So essentially we have evidence.

Except we don't have mating pairs of animals ...

Enjoy


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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by herebedragons, posted 09-03-2017 6:23 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 96 of 899 (818850)
09-03-2017 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
09-03-2017 11:33 AM


Re: No flood: the earth is very very very old
All you have is denial.

What I have is God's word. You have the denial.

No, what you have is a delusional belief that you have god/s word/s, and a conviction (delusion) that you are always right no matter what the evidence shows.

What I have is freely available objective empirical evidence of lots of time into the past with no evidence of a global flood, evidence that could not exist if there had been a flood and evidence that could not exist if the earth were young ... unless your god/s is a joker, a prankster, a maker of fraudulent evidence, a god more interested in fooling people than helping them. That is what the evidence shows faith.

There
was
no
global
flood
for millions of years into the past

If the evidence lies, then it is your god/s that made the lies.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 191 of 899 (819207)
09-07-2017 9:25 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Faith
09-07-2017 11:42 AM


Re: Utter lies from jar
I can say it again.

You can say it till the cows come home on the moon, but that doesn't make it real.

The evidence is so obvious for the Flood it pre-empts the supposed order of the fossils, which is an ililusion anyway.

That is how cognitive dissonance and delusion work.

And the Bible is evidence of God, ...

That fakes evidence and creates lies.

... that's a big part of what it's intended for whether it persuades you or not.

Oh, I'm persuaded that only a desperate delusional gullible foolish person would give up reason and evidence of reality to believe feel-good fantasy.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 195 of 899 (819211)
09-07-2017 9:46 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by Coyote
09-07-2017 9:27 PM


Re: Utter lies from jar
Dear faith and other YECies

Explain the consilience of results from multiple different sources and systems of measuring the age of the 14C samples that makes this composite graph ... if you can.

Denial is not an explanation.

Saying the evidence lies means the whole world is lies and illusion, and - if you believe it was created by god/s - that means the god/s created lies and illusions and not one piece of reality. Everything.

Think about it. Think it through.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 204 of 899 (819241)
09-08-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
09-07-2017 11:31 PM


Re: Utter lies from jar
The only reasonable explanation for the strata and fossils is the worldwide Flood.

Except that it does not explain the fossils

Except that it does not explain radioactive isotopes in the strata

Except that it does not explain the tree rings

Except that it does not explain the Lake Suigetsu fresh water varves

Except that it does not explain the Cariaco Basin marine varves

Except that it does not explain the radiometric dating of the 14C samples

Except that it does not explain the Grand Canyon

Except that it does not explain all the evidence of an old earth

Etc

Etc

Etc

ad nauseum

You never confront the evidence faith. You are incapable of being reasonable if you don't confront the evidence.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 205 of 899 (819245)
09-08-2017 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Faith
09-08-2017 3:24 AM


Re: Only the Flood could possibly explain these things
the depth is easily explained by all the dirt that was stirred up by the forty days and nights of heavy worldwide rain, on land and in the oceans. That's a lot of dirt to get sorted into sediments and redeposited. ...

And that doesn't explain the alternating layers of diatoms and clay silt in Lake Suigetsu ... and can't.

And that doesn't explain the alternating layers of foramins and silt in the Cariaco Basin (salt water) ... and can't

... That's another thing: the "time period" explanation really can't explain the different separated sediments in the Geo Column, a gigantic sandstone, a gigantic limestone etc etc.;....

And that doesn't explain the sorting of radioactive isotopes by age and depth. If it was "stirred up" the would be evenly distributed throughout the sediment layers.

And that doesn't explain uranium halos or any of the mountains of evidence for an old earth.

It doesn't explain the Grand Canyon horseshoe bend formation or the different ages of speleothems in the canyon caves.

It doesn't explain squat.

... . In any case, it's easy to explain a Flood that covered the entire world making layer after layer of different sediments and, really, nothing else can.

Except the actual geological processes that we continue to observe going on today.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(2)
Message 215 of 899 (819282)
09-08-2017 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 210 by Faith
09-08-2017 3:28 PM


More Utter lies from faith
Yes I know early geologists expected geology to confirm the Bible but their imagination was too limited to see that it really does; that's why they went with the so-called evidence of an ancient earth, which hardly deserves the term "evidence" at all, since until radiometric dating methods came along it was just a lot of stuff like Hutton's assessment of Siccar Point ..

Yes the evidence of relative age and the fact that fossils and sedimentary layers do - not - support a global flood, but many local and repeated floods. Blindingly obvious except to the willingly blind.

Leonardo da Vince figured it out, and he is not someone I would call of limited imagination nor someone who could look at evidence and not figure out that clam shells in hillsides were not evidence of a global flood, but that they used to be sea floor.

But that's not all, now we do have radiometric dating methods and they have been confirmed to be accurate and they do in fact confirm that the geological evidence shows the earth is indeed very very very old.

... and the unconformity occurred after all the strata were laid down, just as similar formations occurred elsewhere after the Flood.

Yes strata just decides to turn over in their graves because flood.

The standard theory can't be known either. ...

Curiously the "standard theory" can explain all the evidence ... all the evidence.

Your fantasy cannot explain any of it ... any of it.

Your arguments are laughable.

Uranium halos show the earth is very, very, very old. It doesn't take dating methods to show the earth is very, very, very old, because there is such an overwhelming mountain of evidence it is old, evidence that YECies - and faith - are incapable of refuting. All they can do is deny, say god-did-it with magic flying carpet water, and then run away.

It's tiresome to see these same thread-bare arguments regurgitated on every thread that brings up the flood or the age of the earth, arguments that have been refuted and refuted and refuted.

They might be entertaining for a while, but it gets old, very, very, very old ... and so tiresome.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Faith, posted 09-08-2017 3:28 PM Faith has responded

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 Message 216 by Faith, posted 09-08-2017 11:00 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 230 of 899 (819305)
09-09-2017 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 221 by Faith
09-09-2017 3:19 AM


... that Da Vinci got it right that the mountains weren't there when the seashells were deposited, they were underwater:...

Marine deposits alternating with dry land deposits ergo multiple local floods. Where does the bible say that?

... and got raised up after the Flood into mountains.

Where again does the bible say that?

Or is this just your personal delusion explanation.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
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RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(3)
Message 231 of 899 (819306)
09-09-2017 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Faith
09-08-2017 11:00 PM


Da Vinci missed it, what can I say?

And that folks, is faith's entire argument in a nutshell: it doesn't matter who figures out the geology, if they don't agree with faith they are wrong.

The overbearing sin of pride unrepentant. Is there any point in "debating" with someone who preaches rather than debates?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by jar, posted 09-09-2017 8:20 AM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 242 of 899 (819336)
09-09-2017 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
09-09-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
What if there is a God who made it all and your atheistic science just completely misses it?

(First it should be agnostic science, because it neither validates nor disproves god/s -- because it can't test non-natural phenomena by definition.)

What if there is a God/s who made it all, ...

... the ancient earth and the even older universe, with all the laws of physics and chemistry etc -- created so that life would form and evolve -- and your personal delusion completely misses it?

What if it is all illusion?

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 11:54 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Tangle, posted 09-09-2017 6:07 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 245 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 6:55 PM RAZD has responded

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 69 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 243 of 899 (819337)
09-09-2017 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 232 by jar
09-09-2017 8:20 AM


Re: Why respond
There is not just a point but rather a necessity. It is essential to continue presenting reality when fantasies are presented as fact; if for no other reason then the fact that someone who is honest and not willfully ignorant may well read the posts and realize that what they have been told is utter nonsense.

Indeed, when participants are talking past each other, as is almost always the case with faith, then the audience are those behind them in the wings.

Thanks for the reminder


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by jar, posted 09-09-2017 8:20 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
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