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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 29 of 899 (818576)
08-30-2017 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
08-29-2017 5:03 PM


Welcome back, you old rat. I was just thinking about you the other day. I remember you as a man with a mind of his own.

Of course there never was an Ark. It's just a story and Christians almost always miss the point of the story.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 08-29-2017 5:03 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 10:53 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 49 of 899 (818626)
08-31-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 10:53 PM


riVeRraT writes:

If the Creator of the universe decided to hide evidence of the flood, I am sure He could.


No doubt He could - but if He did, we wouldn't be able to trust Him on anything else, would we?

riVeRraT writes:

After all Jesus said we are to believe by faith.


Jesus didn't say we should believe fairy tales. He said that mouthing, "Lord, Lord," is not real faith. Real faith is in doing, not thinking.

riVeRraT writes:

... it made me think that animals are programmed to seek shelter with humans in these catastrophic events, or an event like the flood.


More likely, the bird was just looking for a moderately dry place to sit for a minute, to get his bearings. If animals are somehow "drawn" to humans, where are all the others?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 10:53 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 50 of 899 (818627)
08-31-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:45 PM


Re: Gimme Shelter
riVeRraT writes:

They constantly attack "Christians" and chop our faith down.


How can anybody chop somebody else's faith down? That's just a copout.

riVeRraT writes:

People are so misinformed that they look to humans to find God, instead of looking towards Jesus.


I look to another fictional character, Long John Silver.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:45 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Diomedes, posted 08-31-2017 2:38 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 51 of 899 (818628)
08-31-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
08-31-2017 9:07 AM


Faith writes:

Does it remind us of the Flood perhaps?


Y'know what reminded me of the Flood? The flooding. The fact that there was an animal within a hundred miles doesn't add much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 9:07 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 141 of 899 (819042)
09-05-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 10:43 PM


riVeRraT writes:

I am not a creationist. Creationist do not conduct real science. I believe Creation is possible, more than random evolution.


Then you're a creationist. You just don't believe creationism is science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:43 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:39 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 166 of 899 (819124)
09-06-2017 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by riVeRraT
09-05-2017 4:39 PM


tiVeRraT writes:

What am I if I believe we were created to evolve through natural processes?


The keyword is "created". If you believe a creator was necessary to the process, you're a creationist. To be fair though, we most often use the word for the worst kind of science-deniers. You're only the second or third worst kind.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:39 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by riVeRraT, posted 09-07-2017 6:48 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(2)
Message 177 of 899 (819173)
09-07-2017 1:26 PM
Reply to: Message 176 by Faith
09-07-2017 1:24 PM


Re: Utter lies from jar
Faith writes:

Sure. Strata and fossils.


That's kinda like saying the smoking gun in your hand is proof of your innocence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by Faith, posted 09-07-2017 1:24 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by PaulK, posted 09-07-2017 1:45 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 208 of 899 (819262)
09-08-2017 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by riVeRraT
09-07-2017 6:48 PM


riVeRraT writes:

Liek I prefer not to be called a Christian. Disciple is better, because I am always learning.


A disciple of Christ would be somebody who follows the teachings of Christ. You'd learn more by broadening your scope. Right now, your belief in Christ seems to be holding your learning back - e.g. you can't seem to learn that the Flood never happened.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by riVeRraT, posted 09-07-2017 6:48 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 276 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2017 5:10 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 209 of 899 (819263)
09-08-2017 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by riVeRraT
09-07-2017 9:33 PM


riVeRraT writes:

I never offered a hypotheses. I just offered evidence.


Read the topic title. You said that it was evidence OF the flood. That is a hypothesis of sorts. But does your evidence support the flood story? Do animals seek shelter in non-flood situations? Yes. So your hypothesis fails.

riVeRraT writes:

There is evidence, you just choose to ignore it based on other evidence.


Nobody is ignoring your evidence. They're ignoring your interpretation of the evidence - because it's nonsensical.

riVeRraT writes:

You must believe in God by faith.

In order for that statement to be true, you cannot use objective evidence to believe in God.


That statement isn't true. Jesus Himself encouraged Thomas to use objective evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by riVeRraT, posted 09-07-2017 9:33 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by NoNukes, posted 09-08-2017 3:47 PM ringo has responded
 Message 277 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2017 5:15 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 235 of 899 (819318)
09-09-2017 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by NoNukes
09-08-2017 3:47 PM


NoNukes writes:

However, Jesus also indicated that believing without the evidence was preferable.


Did He?

quote:
John 20:29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

It looks to me like He was saying that believing without evidence is also acceptable. There's no clear indication of preference.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by NoNukes, posted 09-08-2017 3:47 PM NoNukes has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 12:01 PM ringo has responded
 Message 325 by NoNukes, posted 09-11-2017 4:26 PM ringo has responded
 Message 431 by 1.61803, posted 09-13-2017 3:40 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 236 of 899 (819319)
09-09-2017 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 234 by Faith
09-09-2017 11:54 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
Faith writes:

What if there is a God who made it all and your atheistic science just completely misses it?


As long as atheistic science works for mundane tasks like curing disease and putting men on the moon, who cares if it's Ye Olde Absolute Trvth?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 11:54 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 238 of 899 (819321)
09-09-2017 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 237 by Faith
09-09-2017 12:01 PM


Faith writes:

Jesus graciously allowed him the direct evidence of seeing it himself but He is saying it would have been better had He believed the disciples.


I quoted Him. He didn't say it was better.

Faith writes:

Witness evidence is also evidence.


Poor evidence, which is why Jesus offered real, hard evidence.

Faith writes:

... we are told to believe and that means believe what is written in the Bible.


That is obviously NOT what Jesus meant, since His death and resurrection had not been written in the Bible yet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 12:01 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 239 by NoNukes, posted 09-09-2017 12:24 PM ringo has responded
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 7:01 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 240 of 899 (819324)
09-09-2017 12:26 PM
Reply to: Message 239 by NoNukes
09-09-2017 12:24 PM


NoNukes writes:

It was clear that part of what Jesus said served as an admonishment to Thomas.


That isn't clear at all.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 239 by NoNukes, posted 09-09-2017 12:24 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 272 of 899 (819391)
09-10-2017 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 248 by Faith
09-09-2017 7:01 PM


Faith writes:

When He said "Blessed are those who did not see and yet believed" He was indeed saying that would have been preferable.


No. When He said, "Blessed are those who did not see and yet believed," He was saying, "Blessed are those who did not see and yet believed." The preference is something you're adding to it.

Faith writes:

We are all in that position now, we are not going to get Thomas' special audience, so it is far better to believe the witnesses than stubbornly refuse to believe unless we are given direct proof.


No again. Belief is a poor substitute for direct evidence.

And we come around again to what it means to believe. Is belief the mouthing of "Lord! Lord!" or is it the doing of His wishes? And if we do what He wishes, what difference does it make what we profess?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 248 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 7:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18801
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 317 of 899 (819464)
09-11-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 276 by riVeRraT
09-10-2017 5:10 PM


riVeRraT writes:

What this is about is being able to be open minded enough so you won't be held back from finding Christ.


People who "find Christ" tend to be anything but open-minded. Open-minded doesn't mean gullible; it doesn't mean receptive to woo. If you were really open-minded you'd be open to the idea that Christ doesn't exist, that He never existed.

You can find Bigfoot without believing he exists. You have to be open to the evidence. There is no evidence that the Flood ever happened. There is no evidence that animals flock to humans for aid in times of adversity. And there is less evidence for Christ than there is for Bigfoot.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 276 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2017 5:10 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
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