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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 91 of 899 (818840)
09-03-2017 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:51 AM


Re: Close enough to the topic
What I did by posting this was to show that there is evidence that part of the story on THE GLOBAL FLOOD, is true. If a flood had started, animals have been observed to seek shelter with humans. This is evidence that part of the story could be true. So essentially we have evidence.

You might also have claimed that the existence of water in Houston was evidence for a global flood during historic times, as your bird evidence is just about as weak.

The rest of you went on and on how we have no evidence and went off you your usual bigoted attacks on people of faith. Just admit it, this is evidence in support of the story. Doesn't mean it happened. So unless you can show how animals evolved into this behavior, (asked once already) you can no longer say there is zero evidence

OK, there was water in Houston, and one bird looked for high ground. Big deal. Neither is evidence for a global flood no matter how you spin it. Might as well claim the existence of green cheese on Earth is evidence that the moon is made of green cheese--that's about the same level of evidence.

Oh, and don't forget all the evidence that shows a global flood during historic times never happened.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:06 PM Coyote has replied

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 92 of 899 (818841)
09-03-2017 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:51 AM


Re: On topic
You have evidence that one animal sought shelter and no evidence that it chose that shelter because of humans. That's all. Your wild extrapolation to all animals is unjustified.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 93 of 899 (818842)
09-03-2017 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:38 AM


quote:

Then there is that. Only people that believe there was no flood are allowed to speak losely. Those that have been branded to believe in a flood cannot. I hope you can see your bigotry.

I hope that you can see that you are a whining liar who is upset because he gets the criticisms he earned.

Everyone is allowed to speak as loosely as jar did, at least in ordinary speech. You will rarely find anyone criticised for doing so, no matter what hey believe.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:38 AM riVeRraT has replied

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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17166
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 94 of 899 (818843)
09-03-2017 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:51 AM


Re: On topic
quote:

So Pollux, Faith, and RAZD are the only ones to reply directly to my point in the OP

Untrue, I also did. Message 42

quote:

What I did by posting this was to show that there is evidence that part of the story on THE GLOBAL FLOOD, is true. If a flood had started, animals have been observed to seek shelter with humans. This is evidence that part of the story could be true. So essentially we have evidence.

As I pointed out it is NOT part of the story. It does not even seem to be true in general - the vast majority of urban wildlife did not seek shelter. And even if it was part of the story it would be as true if there were only a severe local flood. Not to mention that fictions can and do include known facts, so even if it was a fact (it isn't) and even if it was in the story (it isn't) it still wouldn't be the evidence you claim.

So, essentially you have no evidence here of a global Flood.

quote:

The rest of you went on and on how we have no evidence and went off you your usual bigoted attacks on people of faith. Just admit it, this is evidence in support of the story. Doesn't mean it happened. So unless you can show how animals evolved into this behavior, (asked once already) you can no longer say there is zero evidence.

Since I have given four good reasons why it is not evidence of a global flood this hardly applies.

We do not even have to assume that this is an evolved instinct since the evidence is against it. Why the relatively few animals who did seek shelter with humans did so is a question that needs to be addressed individually because the numbers are small. Some may have been partly tame - escaped from domestic life, or habituated to humans (usually from being fed). Some may simply seek shelter and find tolerating humans better than the alternative. It's not hard to explain at all.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 95 of 899 (818849)
09-03-2017 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:51 AM


Re: On topic
... If a flood had started, animals have been observed to seek shelter with humans. This is evidence that part of the story could be true. So essentially we have evidence.

Except we don't have mating pairs of animals ...

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:51 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 99 by herebedragons, posted 09-03-2017 6:23 PM RAZD has seen this message
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RAZD
Member (Idle past 634 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 96 of 899 (818850)
09-03-2017 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
09-03-2017 11:33 AM


Re: No flood: the earth is very very very old
All you have is denial.

What I have is God's word. You have the denial.

No, what you have is a delusional belief that you have god/s word/s, and a conviction (delusion) that you are always right no matter what the evidence shows.

What I have is freely available objective empirical evidence of lots of time into the past with no evidence of a global flood, evidence that could not exist if there had been a flood and evidence that could not exist if the earth were young ... unless your god/s is a joker, a prankster, a maker of fraudulent evidence, a god more interested in fooling people than helping them. That is what the evidence shows faith.

There
was
no
global
flood
for millions of years into the past

If the evidence lies, then it is your god/s that made the lies.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 09-03-2017 11:33 AM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(4)
Message 97 of 899 (818851)
09-03-2017 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:38 AM


belief and conclusion are not synonyms.
rr writes:

Only people that believe there was no flood are allowed to speak losely.

I don't know anyone who believes there was no flood. There are lots of people who conclude that there has never been a world-wide flood during the times humans lived. That latter is not a matter of belief but rather an inescapable conclusion based on the overwhelming evidence found in reality as well as the evidence that there are two mutually exclusive flood myths found in the Bible stories.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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14174dm
Member (Idle past 338 days)
Posts: 161
From: Cincinnati OH
Joined: 10-12-2015


Message 98 of 899 (818857)
09-03-2017 5:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by riVeRraT
08-29-2017 5:03 PM


Update on Harvey
Harvey the Hawk was injured and, as of the linked video, recovering at a rehab center.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P7qp_Zi_NA


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by riVeRraT, posted 08-29-2017 5:03 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
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herebedragons
Member (Idle past 87 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


(2)
Message 99 of 899 (818859)
09-03-2017 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 95 by RAZD
09-03-2017 2:15 PM


Re: On topic
Except we don't have mating pairs of animals ...

That's what I was thinking too. Now if there would have been several pairs of animals seeking out safety with humans a day or two in advance of the flood... that might raise some eyebrows. But one owl landing in/on a guys car during a flood is one of the wackiest things I have ever seen given as evidence for Noah's flood.

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 2:15 PM RAZD has seen this message

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jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 100 of 899 (818864)
09-03-2017 6:59 PM
Reply to: Message 99 by herebedragons
09-03-2017 6:23 PM


Re: On topic
Yup. Had a mating pair of 'roos shown up in Houston with a pair of koalas in their pouches with a whole line of Lions and Tigers and Bears and Ohmys there might have been a news story worth of Faux News.

The Biblical Flood is simply a silly sophomoric joke at the very best attempted by an inept, evil, dishonest and untrustworthy God who was trying to get a gig in stand up comedy.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 673 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 101 of 899 (818866)
09-03-2017 7:11 PM


Strata and fossils

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 20739
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 102 of 899 (818867)
09-03-2017 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by riVeRraT
09-03-2017 11:34 AM


riVeRraT writes:

Me thinks you are confusing "a flood" with "the flood" and now "global flood". But nice try on dodging the topic.

The only one dodging any issues is you. First there's this icon of clarity:

riVerRaT in Message 62 writes:

No one ever thought it was flat before that, said no one ever.

What does this mean? Who knows, you won't explain it. First you make conflicting statements and amidst a cloud of nonsense, then you try to blame the confusion on everyone else while still refusing to explain anything. Let's face it - you've made a hash of things and are desperately seeking a way out.

Now let's trace your confusion about the global flood:

Jar: There has never been a world wide flood during the period when humans existed

riVeRraT: That statement is incorrect.

Percy: Aren't you asserting that there *has* been a world-wide flood since humans have existed?

riVeRraT: I suggested it.

Percy: Suggests there was a world wide flood.

riVeRraT: I did not suggest there was a flood.

There it is in black and white, first you suggesting there was a world wide flood, then denying ever suggesting it.

And let's not forget this:

I am not a creationist.

"Quack!"

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:34 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:43 PM Percy has replied

  
herebedragons
Member (Idle past 87 days)
Posts: 1517
From: Michigan
Joined: 11-22-2009


Message 103 of 899 (818868)
09-03-2017 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
09-03-2017 7:11 PM


Strata and fossils

Yea, yea, we know. Strata and fossils = global flood.

But the question here is...

Do you think this story of a hawk seeking help from a human is actually evidence of Noah's flood?

HBD


Whoever calls me ignorant shares my own opinion. Sorrowfully and tacitly I recognize my ignorance, when I consider how much I lack of what my mind in its craving for knowledge is sighing for... I console myself with the consideration that this belongs to our common nature. - Francesco Petrarca

"Nothing is easier than to persuade people who want to be persuaded and already believe." - another Petrarca gem.

Ignorance is a most formidable opponent rivaled only by arrogance; but when the two join forces, one is all but invincible.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Faith, posted 09-03-2017 7:11 PM Faith has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33887
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(3)
Message 104 of 899 (818870)
09-03-2017 7:35 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Faith
09-03-2017 7:11 PM


Faith writes:

Strata and fossils

Let me fix that for you.

Strata and fossils are absolute and conclusive proof that there was never a Biblical Flood since no one has ever been able to present a model, mechanism, method, process, procedure for any flood to create the order found in reality.

Period!

The Biblical Flood is as absurd as the Garden or Eden, the Fall, The Exodus and the Conquest of Canaan or Young Earth.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 159 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 105 of 899 (818875)
09-03-2017 11:06 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Coyote
09-03-2017 12:03 PM


Re: Close enough to the topic
Coyote writes:

You might also have claimed that the existence of water in Houston was evidence for a global flood during historic times, as your bird evidence is just about as weak.

Weak is more than zero.

The water accumulation IS evidence of a global flood, but I am not going to go into that right now. It goes back to one of my posts years ago. Just 52" of rain in 5 days made the water 20' deep. Imagine what 40 days and nights would have done, globally.

OK, there was water in Houston, and one bird looked for high ground. Big deal. Neither is evidence for a global flood no matter how you spin it.

Because you say so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Coyote, posted 09-03-2017 12:03 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Coyote, posted 09-03-2017 11:52 PM riVeRraT has replied
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