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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 37 of 894 (818602)
08-31-2017 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:00 PM


Scientists asserted the world was flat until it was round

How about listing the name of a single scientist who thought the world was flat. Are you aware that it was known that the earth was spherical, and that its diameter was measured by Eratosthenes in about 200 BC, a time well before the invention of the scientific method?

Scientists have been wrong. But this particular claim is garbage.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:00 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:20 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 894 (818629)
08-31-2017 12:03 PM


The idea that this falcon is evidence of the flood is no more or less stupid than any of the other arguments for the Flood I have seen here.

But has anyone considered that this bird may not be completely wild? Folks train these particular birds as pets, and I am sure that some of them escape and don't feel the desire to come back home.

Percy has set a low bar for discussion of this subject. If the discussion becomes serious, he will move the discussion to an appropriate thread. Is anyone here capable of making a serious argument that this bird is evidence for the Flood or can we just continue to just laugh at creationists the way we do anywhere except on EvC?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 1:22 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 58 of 894 (818652)
08-31-2017 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by PaulK
08-31-2017 1:22 PM


but even if it is a wild bird there must be a lot more Cooper's Hawks around that didn't jump into taxis - not to mention all the rest of the urban wildlife.

That is because you are looking at it wrong. The countless animals that did not jump into a taxi remind us of what a miracle Noah's story about the animals arriving two by two is. The one bird that jumped into a taxi is evidence of the flood.

uh, no wait. The argument is stupid.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 1:22 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 65 of 894 (818668)
08-31-2017 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by riVeRraT
08-31-2017 6:20 PM


here were people before the scientific method who were authorities on all things technical. In other words they were scientists.

If they were not using the scientific method, then their results do not impugn science which requires that method.

You are proving the point that being an authority without using the scientific method gives bad results. "Authorities on all things Technical" does not equal scientist.

Now, what was the name of that scientist who thought the world was flat?


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:20 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 135 of 894 (818998)
09-04-2017 11:35 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 11:09 PM


Re: On topic
Genisis7:20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

1) That is not a random arrangement.
2) It happened before the Flood not during according to the account.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 11:09 PM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:27 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 212 of 894 (819274)
09-08-2017 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by ringo
09-08-2017 11:58 AM


That statement isn't true. Jesus Himself encouraged Thomas to use objective evidence.

Jesus did encourage Thomas, who was otherwise unconvinced, to use objective evidence. However, Jesus also indicated that believing without the evidence was preferable.

Which is beside the point. Someone insisting first that they believe God deliberately did not provide evidence, then later insisting that there is evidence, might well be a bit confused.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 09-08-2017 11:58 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by ringo, posted 09-09-2017 11:55 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 239 of 894 (819323)
09-09-2017 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 238 by ringo
09-09-2017 12:05 PM


I quoted Him. He didn't say it was better.

You quoted some of what Jesus said. It was clear that part of what Jesus said served as an admonishment to Thomas.

Then Jesus told him, “Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 238 by ringo, posted 09-09-2017 12:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by ringo, posted 09-09-2017 12:26 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 257 of 894 (819357)
09-09-2017 10:54 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by Faith
09-09-2017 7:31 PM


Re: Atheistic science?
God is known by other means than physical science because He Himself is not physical.

This thread is not about whether God exists, which yes, is beyond the realm of science, but about whether the Flood, which few here seem to suggest is about the non-physical, happened. Unless the Flood itself is not an empirical, evidence leaving quantity, then I think your question, while interesting, is not really germane to the topic.

Did God Create the universe? may well be a question unanswerable by scientific means. But the questions of whether the Sun and Moon were created on day four, and whether there was ever a canopy of water above the dome of the sky are certainly questions that science may have some input into. Apparently, the scientific answer to those questions is no.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by Faith, posted 09-09-2017 7:31 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Rrhain, posted 09-10-2017 4:34 AM NoNukes has responded
 Message 494 by riVeRraT, posted 09-14-2017 12:03 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 325 of 894 (819480)
09-11-2017 4:26 PM
Reply to: Message 235 by ringo
09-09-2017 11:55 AM


It looks to me like He was saying that believing without evidence is also acceptable.

Jesus talked about faith enough, that your interpretation can readily be seen as unlikely. Jesus did not make his remark out of thin air. Doubting Thomas came in second here.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by ringo, posted 09-09-2017 11:55 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by ringo, posted 09-12-2017 11:47 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 346 of 894 (819515)
09-12-2017 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 344 by Thugpreacha
09-12-2017 9:02 AM


Re: Psychology Study: Does Flood=Jesus?
In defense of Faith, I feel that she strongly believes that if secular folks were honest within themselves, they would believe that a global flood (Hint: Bible=Truth=Jesus) is a potential reality.

I am sure she does feel that way. But acknowledging that does not excuse the lying about her posting history, the insults, the expressions of hatred, and then leaving in a huff. Most of us here are equally committed to our positions as is Faith.

Regardless of the truth, there is no way that Faith's posts are anywhere near an argument, let alone proof for her position. Telling people they would believe what she believes is they would "think harder", or if they weren't Marxists is pretty insulting.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-12-2017 9:02 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 349 of 894 (819518)
09-12-2017 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 259 by Rrhain
09-10-2017 4:34 AM


Re: Atheistic science?
No, it isn't. God is an object. Any object that interacts with us will necessarily leave traces

Not if the interaction is magical and undetectable. If God is magically inserting a spirit into each human at say, conception, and the spirit is immaterial, then such insertion would not be detectable.

So no, the question of the existence of god is most definitely within the realm of science.

Since I don't accept your first premise, I am not led to your conclusion. The existence of God is not provable or disprovable by philosophy or science.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Rrhain, posted 09-10-2017 4:34 AM Rrhain has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 407 by Thugpreacha, posted 09-13-2017 8:32 AM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 819 by Rrhain, posted 09-17-2017 4:29 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 359 of 894 (819530)
09-12-2017 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by Stile
09-12-2017 10:00 AM


Re: No lies, just a difference of context
Both of these statements are true, using their intended context of the word "honestly."

I disagree. Honesty does not mean just faithfully presenting one's position. I believe Fatih actually crosses some lines where she is not telling the truth. Whether or not that is knowingly, or with failing to understand the implications of what she says is another question.

Any and all information that cannot currently be verified against the Bible (as interpreted by Faith and the scholars she respects) may be ignored or labeled as "to be explained later" by future information.

I'm sorry, but this kind of dismissal is not honest if done knowingly. Faith goes further and says that such things are illusion.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Stile, posted 09-12-2017 10:00 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Stile, posted 09-12-2017 11:22 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 361 of 894 (819532)
09-12-2017 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 360 by jar
09-12-2017 10:53 AM


Re: All Evidence is Equal (But some evidence is more equal than others)
First, almost everything in the Bible is anonymous; the author is unknown.

Many of the stories in Genesis are not witnessed. Nobody witnessed creation, there is no claim that Noah or his entourage wrote the description of the flood, and in fact, the account includes things that Noah surely did not witness. By tradition, Moses wrote the Torah, but even Moses did not witness the events in Genesis.

A cash register receipt is some evidence that your items passed by the cashier, but the Bible is evidence that someone told a story about an event. The vetting process (canonization) is evidence that the stories were found inspiration and believed.

The evidence in the Bible is Hebrews 11 style "evidence" and not evidence in any conventional sense.

Multiple witness accounts that agree is more reliable than a single witness.

Sometimes...


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by jar, posted 09-12-2017 10:53 AM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 372 of 894 (819557)
09-12-2017 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 363 by ringo
09-12-2017 11:47 AM


It seems that blessings are a mixed bag.

Ringo, I understand that you like to keep an argument going, but I have to label this attempt at fairly ridiculous. If you actually believe that Jesus was not only elevating Doubting Thomas, but denigrating the others for their faith, you are welcome to hold that belief. But I find your position an incredible stretch that I am not going to entertain further.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by ringo, posted 09-12-2017 11:47 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 427 by ringo, posted 09-13-2017 3:15 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 464 of 894 (819670)
09-13-2017 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by riVeRraT
09-05-2017 4:27 PM


Re: On topic
In other observances, animals ran for shelter before the flood.

Right, so why are you citing this animal instead of those. The complaint you are given is that this animal is not showing signs of behaving like the animals in the Noahic flood because those animals actually showed up well in pairs, sometimes in larger groups of pairs, before there was any flood. Here we have one bird showing up by itself because he was flooded out.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:27 PM riVeRraT has not yet responded

  
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