Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9073 total)
68 online now:
PaulK (1 member, 67 visitors)
Newest Member: MidwestPaul
Post Volume: Total: 893,277 Year: 4,389/6,534 Month: 603/900 Week: 127/182 Day: 7/27 Hour: 0/4

Announcements: Security Update Released


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
jar
Member
Posts: 33906
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 136 of 899 (819000)
09-04-2017 11:56 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 10:55 PM


Re: On topic
rr writes:

LMAO! Climate change made that storm stall didn't it? LMAO It didn't know where to go because CO2.

Climate change almost certainly helped create the storm but the flooding was caused by ignorance and greed; on constantly voting down zoning and building regulations.

rr writes:

You believe in God you say? He created the universe, and He could have hid the (objective)evidence of a flood from us. Which is what I think happened. God wants us to believe by faith, what good then would evidence serve us?

Seeing that you believe in god(small g for you), this is one scenario that could have happened. Saying it didn't happen as absolute is not really faithful, or scientific minded of you.

Then you are marketing a vile, evil, dishonest God who is also not really very smart or effective. As I pointed out in Message 46 the God you claim and market is really really stupid.

Part of the evidence that shows there was no world-wide flood during the time humans have existed are the cultures that continue uninterrupted by the Biblical Flood. Part of hiding the evidence then was creating populations that replaced everything that was killed so there was not interruption to the civilizations or even their mythos.

Your God created flood that no one noticed.

Pretty pitiful.

rr writes:

And we always are able to see that evidence........said no one ever.

Yes, we are able to see the evidence.

There has never been a world-wide flood during the time humans existed. Remember, all it takes is one single example of something that must have been effected by the flood but has not been effected.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:55 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:25 PM jar has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17167
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 137 of 899 (819001)
09-05-2017 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 11:09 PM


Re: On topic
quote:

Cool Beans.

Then perhaps we can avoid such ridiculous misrepresentations in the future.

quote:

Genisis7:20 Two of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal and of every kind of creature that moves along the ground will come to you to be kept alive.

So, not exactly a crowd of those local species prepared to tolerate human company arriving only when the rain got really bad. Even if we ignore the parallel account (which has distinct differences) you have to have pairs (and only pairs) of all species and the whole thing has to happen in a day. Obviously if there were simply an instinct to find shelter with humans you would just get the species living in the immediate area, and pretty much every single one of them - not just a pair,

So, no, that doesn't fit the story (and to the extent it does, it makes a lot more sense for a local Flood - only species living close to the Ark are even possibly going to get in)

Edited by PaulK, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 11:09 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 138 of 899 (819012)
09-05-2017 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 127 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 10:46 PM


Re: On topic
Assertions are not evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:46 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:28 PM JonF has taken no action

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 6174
Joined: 06-23-2003


Message 139 of 899 (819013)
09-05-2017 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 10:48 PM


Re: Close enough to the topic
Thermodynamics. You may not realize that steam and water were the drivers of the industrial revolution. We know a lot about water in various states. If the water was in the atmosphere the temperature and pressure required to keep it there would make the Earth uninhabitable. If the water came from outside the atmosphere the heat released by loss of potential energy would make the Earth uninhabitable. Except, of course, for a few thermophilic bacteria.

Sensitivity Studies on Vapor Canopy Temperature Profiles
Water and Vapor and Noah's Flood


This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:48 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:31 PM JonF has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


(5)
Message 140 of 899 (819018)
09-05-2017 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 10:43 PM


riVeRraT writes:

I am not a creationist. Creationist do not conduct real science.

The CRS (Creation Research Society) and the Discovery Institute and Steve Austin and Jonathan Wells and Michael Behe and Stephen Meyer and William Dembski and (throwing him in just for fun) Kent Hovind would disagree with you.

For the nth time, I am not saying there was a flood. I said Harvey the Hawk is direct evidence that part of the story of the great flood is true. Can you debate that maybe?

I don't debate the absurdly ridiculous. "Oh, look, it's raining, evidence of the flood."

There is evidence of a flood, we just choose to ignore it, because there is more evidence there wasn't a flood. Too many people in here say there is NO evidence.

If you pick and choose your evidence then anything can seem true. Seashells on a mountain top are evidence of the flood, as long as you ignore all the other evidence. Incomplete evidence points in the wrong direction all the time - it's why so many innocent people are in jail. Your ability to assemble a grouping of incomplete evidence doesn't make the flood any less impossible than it already is.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:43 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:36 PM Percy has replied

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19530
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 141 of 899 (819042)
09-05-2017 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by riVeRraT
09-04-2017 10:43 PM


riVeRraT writes:

I am not a creationist. Creationist do not conduct real science. I believe Creation is possible, more than random evolution.


Then you're a creationist. You just don't believe creationism is science.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by riVeRraT, posted 09-04-2017 10:43 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:39 PM ringo has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 142 of 899 (819061)
09-05-2017 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by jar
09-04-2017 11:56 PM


Re: On topic
jar writes:

Climate change almost certainly helped create the storm

That goal post moved rather quickly.

but the flooding was caused by ignorance and greed; on constantly voting down zoning and building regulations.

Agreed.

Then you are marketing a vile, evil, dishonest God

According to the Cult of jar. That's not the way it works jar. You don't take your subjective opinion, about a subjective story, and market said opinion as fact. What you've done is exposed how you think, not how the rest of thinks. Speak for yourself. 2+2=4, but your 2's and my 2's are different.

Part of the evidence that shows there was no world-wide flood during the time humans have existed are the cultures that continue uninterrupted by the Biblical Flood. Part of hiding the evidence then was creating populations that replaced everything that was killed so there was not interruption to the civilizations or even their mythos.

Your God created flood that no one noticed.

If biblical dates are correct. I am not a bible literalist, so it is unimportant to me. Or God could have choose to save those cultures and not tell Noah, or whatever. Like I said it's God, the creator of the universe. He can make a flood happen anyway He wants for whatever purpose He wants.

Yes, we are able to see the evidence.

What evidence? How can you see evidence you don't even know about? Unless you know everything.

Remember, all it takes is one single example of something that must have been effected by the flood but has not been effected.

Or a supernatural God who decided it would be best to hide the evidence from jar.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by jar, posted 09-04-2017 11:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 4:34 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 143 of 899 (819062)
09-05-2017 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by NoNukes
09-04-2017 11:35 PM


Re: On topic
NoNukes writes:

1) That is not a random arrangement.
2) It happened before the Flood not during according to the account.

As stated before, this wasn't a global flood. All we are examining here is the behavior of the animal. In other observances, animals ran for shelter before the flood.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by NoNukes, posted 09-04-2017 11:35 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 464 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 8:14 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 144 of 899 (819063)
09-05-2017 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by JonF
09-05-2017 8:03 AM


Re: On topic
JonF writes:

Assertions are not evidence.

Or fact. Perhaps you meant that for jar?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by JonF, posted 09-05-2017 8:03 AM JonF has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 145 of 899 (819064)
09-05-2017 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by JonF
09-05-2017 8:09 AM


Re: Close enough to the topic
JonF writes:

Thermodynamics. You may not realize that steam and water were the drivers of the industrial revolution. We know a lot about water in various states. If the water was in the atmosphere the temperature and pressure required to keep it there would make the Earth uninhabitable. If the water came from outside the atmosphere the heat released by loss of potential energy would make the Earth uninhabitable. Except, of course, for a few thermophilic bacteria.

OMG yes! Thank you for saying this. This reminds of years ago, and who knows it may have even been you. Someone calculated the amount of friction would heat the water up as it fell to raise the temperature so high as to cause life to cease to exist.

Congratulations bro, you just explained hail. lmao.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by JonF, posted 09-05-2017 8:09 AM JonF has taken no action

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33906
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 146 of 899 (819065)
09-05-2017 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by riVeRraT
09-05-2017 4:25 PM


Re: On topic
My 2s are honest actual 2s.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:25 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:40 PM jar has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 147 of 899 (819066)
09-05-2017 4:36 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Percy
09-05-2017 9:18 AM


percy writes:

The CRS (Creation Research Society) and the Discovery Institute and Steve Austin and Jonathan Wells and Michael Behe and Stephen Meyer and William Dembski and (throwing him in just for fun) Kent Hovind would disagree with you.

About what? That I am not a creationist, or that they are not conducting real science? Either way who gives a rats ass what they think.

I don't debate the absurdly ridiculous. "Oh, look, it's raining, evidence of the flood."

Ummm, let me check, nope I never said that. So was this statement another one of your unattacks on my character? Me thinks so.

If you pick and choose your evidence then anything can seem true.

Who's picking and choosing? Not me, you are.

Seashells on a mountain top are evidence of the flood, as long as you ignore all the other evidence.

Until the other evidence changes or new evidence is found. Aren't we always supposed to be on the look out for a better explanation? Who's picking and choosing now? Who has the closed mind now? Words are important.

Your ability to assemble a grouping of incomplete evidence doesn't make the flood any less impossible than it already is.

Incomplete evidence can do the same thing, as does lack of knowledge.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Percy, posted 09-05-2017 9:18 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Percy, posted 09-05-2017 6:56 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 148 of 899 (819067)
09-05-2017 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by ringo
09-05-2017 12:15 PM


ringo writes:

Then you're a creationist. You just don't believe creationism is science.

What am I if I believe we were created to evolve through natural processes?

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by ringo, posted 09-05-2017 12:15 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Tangle, posted 09-05-2017 5:01 PM riVeRraT has taken no action
 Message 166 by ringo, posted 09-06-2017 3:20 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 470 by NoNukes, posted 09-13-2017 8:37 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 168 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 149 of 899 (819068)
09-05-2017 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by jar
09-05-2017 4:34 PM


Re: On topic
jar writes:

My 2s are honest actual 2s.

Right, your subjective 2s are more legit than my subjective 2s. There's a word for that kind of thinking....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 4:34 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by jar, posted 09-05-2017 5:11 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8494
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 150 of 899 (819070)
09-05-2017 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by riVeRraT
09-05-2017 4:39 PM


Riverat writes:

What am I if I believe we were created to evolve through natural processes?

A very fashionable, very modern creationist.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by riVeRraT, posted 09-05-2017 4:39 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022