Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9077 total)
654 online now:
kjsimons, nwr, PaulK, Phat, Tangle, Tanypteryx, Theodoric, vimesey (8 members, 646 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 894,065 Year: 5,177/6,534 Month: 20/577 Week: 8/80 Day: 8/11 Hour: 1/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 31 of 899 (818593)
08-30-2017 10:53 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by ringo
08-30-2017 3:37 PM


ringo writes:

Welcome back, you old rat. I was just thinking about you the other day. I remember you as a man with a mind of his own.
Of course there never was an Ark. It's just a story and Christians almost always miss the point of the story.

Your thoughts brought me back, lol!

It might be a story, it might not. If the Creator of the universe decided to hide evidence of the flood, I am sure He could. After all Jesus said we are to believe by faith. What good then would it be to provide objective evidence of God if He wants us to believe by faith?

I just saw this story, and the look in the hawks eye, and it made me think that animals are programmed to seek shelter with humans in these catastrophic events, or an event like the flood. As a child contemplating the story of the flood I wondered how the animals knew to go to the ark. I would love to hear how the animals could have "evolved" to do this, because to me it seems more like they were created to do it. Either way it is evidence of something awesome.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by ringo, posted 08-30-2017 3:37 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 8:37 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 48 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-31-2017 11:36 AM riVeRraT has taken no action
 Message 49 by ringo, posted 08-31-2017 11:45 AM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 32 of 899 (818594)
08-30-2017 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Percy
08-30-2017 1:30 PM


Percy writes:

Aren't you asserting that there *has* been a worldwide flood since humans have existed?

I suggested it.

And Jar is asserting the opposite, that there *hasn't* been a worldwide flood since humans have existed?

Yea I got that.

Now there's a weird one. How can a statement of position, particularly one supported by all the evidence, be a denial of the scientific method?

Because that is not how science works. Aren't there enough threads on it? you can't prove a negative, and nothing is ever really proven anyway. All of it takes a percentage of faith. The better answer should have been "the evidence does not point to a flood, until better evidence is available". Scientists asserted the world was flat until it was round. Science has been wrong before, and it will be wrong again. Somehow being humble escapes many people who call themselves scientists.

Edited by AdminPhat, : fixed broken quote


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Percy, posted 08-30-2017 1:30 PM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 12:12 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 39 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 12:33 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 41 by Percy, posted 08-31-2017 8:22 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 33 of 899 (818595)
08-30-2017 11:03 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by kjsimons
08-30-2017 11:04 AM


kjsimons writes:

This is a total non-sequitur as Jar's statement about there never being a world wide flood since people have existed is a scientific fact. So how would him stating this fact equate to denying the scientific method?

Fact, humans thought that the world was flat was fact. I am always amazed at how closed minded everyone here really is. jar is just an atheist kiss ass, who never really says things of substance, well at least not yet until better evidence is available.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by kjsimons, posted 08-30-2017 11:04 AM kjsimons has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 08-30-2017 11:27 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15996
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 34 of 899 (818596)
08-30-2017 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:03 PM


Gimme Shelter
RR writes:

Fact, humans thought that the world was flat was fact. I am always amazed at how closed minded everyone here really is. jar is just an atheist kiss ass, who never really says things of substance, well at least not yet until better evidence is available.

In my opinion, (as long as we are gossipping) jar is less worried about the atheists at EvC than he is about the Christians.(Ones who call themselves Christian)

I suppose it's good that prayers are happening.

Did you hear that Houston and the media are mad at Joel Osteen? Seems they were pressuring him to do the good thing and open up his church as an emergency shelter. I'm sure he has a sound reason why he did not do this.

He will probably say that he is donating resources/money another way.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
"as long as chance rules, God is an anachronism."~Arthur Koestler

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:03 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:45 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 36 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 12:08 AM Phat has seen this message

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 35 of 899 (818600)
08-30-2017 11:45 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
08-30-2017 11:27 PM


Re: Gimme Shelter
jar does not appear righteous to me. I totally see what he tries to do here, but he never really serves us any meat. It's like chasing rainbows talking to him. But all the atheists adore him. They say things like if I was a Christian I would be like you. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, do to lack of substance.

Joel Olsteen was misrepresented. His church was most certainly available. More hype. Media taking control of your thoughts. They constantly attack "Christians" and chop our faith down. They use people who do wrong to say "see there is no God". People are so misinformed that they look to humans to find God, instead of looking towards Jesus.

**edit ,the media (at least NBC) realized their mistake and let Joel on the air to clear up the mess that was created by that false tweet.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 08-30-2017 11:27 PM Phat has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 08-31-2017 11:53 AM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 36 of 899 (818601)
08-31-2017 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by Phat
08-30-2017 11:27 PM


masquerade
jar should worry about himself; he's the one off the track. In the ditch even.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Phat, posted 08-30-2017 11:27 PM Phat has seen this message

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 37 of 899 (818602)
08-31-2017 12:12 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:00 PM


Scientists asserted the world was flat until it was round

How about listing the name of a single scientist who thought the world was flat. Are you aware that it was known that the earth was spherical, and that its diameter was measured by Eratosthenes in about 200 BC, a time well before the invention of the scientific method?

Scientists have been wrong. But this particular claim is garbage.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:00 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:20 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 38 of 899 (818603)
08-31-2017 12:19 AM


Harvey the Hawk updates
the taxi driver kept trying to get him to fly off and ended up taking him home with him to wait out the hurricane; eventually got him to an animal shelter.


Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by xongsmith, posted 08-31-2017 4:29 PM Faith has taken no action
 Message 59 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:17 PM Faith has taken no action

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 39 of 899 (818604)
08-31-2017 12:33 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:00 PM


Science doesn't work quite the way you think. There are degrees of certainty. The conclusion that there was never a world-wide flood while humans have existed is very high on that scale. It's not absolute but it isn't far off.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:00 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:21 PM PaulK has replied

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 40 of 899 (818607)
08-31-2017 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 10:58 AM


And you are about to present the evidence that shows there was a world-wide flood during the time humans exited?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 10:58 AM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20837
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


(2)
Message 41 of 899 (818609)
08-31-2017 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:00 PM


riVeRraT writes:

Because that is not how science works. Aren't there enough threads on it? you can't prove a negative, and nothing is ever really proven anyway. All of it takes a percentage of faith. The better answer should have been "the evidence does not point to a flood, until better evidence is available".

Oh, you mean the principle of tentativity, not the scientific method. Tentativity underpins all science, so woven into the fabric that it rarely needs mention, except maybe for the sake of those who get it mixed up with the scientific method.

Scientists asserted the world was flat until it was round.

Actually, scientists knew the world was spherical long before Christian clergy began insisting it was flat.

Science has been wrong before, and it will be wrong again.

News flash!

Somehow being humble escapes many people who call themselves scientists.

Hmmm, denigrates scientists. Suggests there was a world wide flood.

I am not a creationist.

But you sure are quacking the walk.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:00 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:27 PM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 42 of 899 (818610)
08-31-2017 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 10:53 PM


Even if you extend this behaviour to all wild animals it isn't evidence of the Flood.

First, it provides no reason at all to believe that a world-wide Flood actually happened.

Second, even if you insert it into the Flood story all you would get is local animals trying to get into the Ark when things are already bad, which hardly fits the story.

It's silly to call it evidence of the Flood. That's why I thought that the OP was just a joke.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 10:53 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 9:07 AM PaulK has replied
 Message 46 by jar, posted 08-31-2017 9:31 AM PaulK has taken no action
 Message 63 by riVeRraT, posted 08-31-2017 6:28 PM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 43 of 899 (818612)
08-31-2017 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by PaulK
08-31-2017 8:37 AM


O fer pete's sake. A hawk is scared of the coming hurricane and hides in a taxi and won't leave. Does it remind us of the Flood perhaps? Well sure it does, refuge from the storm for some animals as well as humans. You can stretch an analogy too far you know.

This got me into watching lots of videos about animals being rescued in Houston. Lot of touching stories. Sad to see a whole city under water but good to see so many people pitching in to help.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 8:37 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 9:17 AM Faith has replied
 Message 51 by ringo, posted 08-31-2017 11:56 AM Faith has taken no action

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 44 of 899 (818613)
08-31-2017 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
08-31-2017 9:07 AM


quote:

O fer pete's sake. A hawk is scared of the coming hurricane and hides in a taxi and won't leave. Does it remind us of the Flood perhaps? Well sure it does, refuge from the storm for some animals as well as humans. You can stretch an analogy too far you know.

You realise that you are agreeing with me ? That calling this "evidence of the Flood" is best taken as a joke ?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 9:07 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 9:22 AM PaulK has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 45 of 899 (818614)
08-31-2017 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by PaulK
08-31-2017 9:17 AM


I don't take it as a joke, it's a sweet reminder of animals' dependency on us which is most dramatically portrayed in the Ark.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 9:17 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 9:33 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022