Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 65 (9077 total)
120 online now:
AZPaul3, nwr, PaulK, ringo, Theodoric (5 members, 115 visitors)
Newest Member: Contrarian
Post Volume: Total: 894,080 Year: 5,192/6,534 Month: 35/577 Week: 23/80 Day: 10/13 Hour: 3/5


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 46 of 899 (818616)
08-31-2017 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by PaulK
08-31-2017 8:37 AM


God the counterfeiter
What is sad to me is the people who market the Biblical Flood don't seem to realize that by doing so they are marketing a God that is a liar, a fraud, a counterfeiter and a conman.

All of the physical evidence ever found by Geologists, Geneticists, Paleontologists, Biologists, Physicists and every other field of scientific endeavor show that there has never been a world-wide flood, particularly not during the time span that humans have existed.

To accept that there really was a Biblical Flood entails also accepting (assuming honesty) that God then not only hid all the evidence but went so far as to create the evidence that shows just the opposite; that God not only committed the greatest genocide of all time but then not just destroyed the evidence but fabricated new evidence to show the genocide never happened.

They are marketing a God who is without a doubt the greatest criminal of all time. Granted, that really is the expected behavior of a crook but hardly an example of something that should be respected, admired, worshiped or adored.

Edited by jar, : missing word added so sentence actually makes sense.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 8:37 AM PaulK has taken no action

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 47 of 899 (818617)
08-31-2017 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Faith
08-31-2017 9:22 AM


To call it evidence of the Flood is still a joke. Nothing in your post even addresses that point.

And, while it may please you to think that animals are dependent on us, it isn't generally true of wild animals (and where it is true it's usually because we've made things difficult for them)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 9:22 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3351
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 48 of 899 (818624)
08-31-2017 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 10:53 PM


just saw this story, and the look in the hawks eye, and it made me think that animals are programmed to seek shelter with humans in these catastrophic events, or an event like the flood.

One case of a hawk seeking shelter in an empty cab is not evidence that "wild animals" are programmed to seek shelter with humans.

Animals die from the elements all the time. Animals die in weather events all the time. The evidence is overwhelming that very few wild animals specifically seek shelter with humans during natural disasters.

You might have noticed that urban birds of prey build their nests in places where it looks like it would be difficult for other animals including humans to approach. They do not build their nests in occupied houses.

It makes the news when Peregrines build on an office building ledge next to a window.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 10:53 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19618
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 49 of 899 (818626)
08-31-2017 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 10:53 PM


riVeRraT writes:

If the Creator of the universe decided to hide evidence of the flood, I am sure He could.


No doubt He could - but if He did, we wouldn't be able to trust Him on anything else, would we?

riVeRraT writes:

After all Jesus said we are to believe by faith.


Jesus didn't say we should believe fairy tales. He said that mouthing, "Lord, Lord," is not real faith. Real faith is in doing, not thinking.

riVeRraT writes:

... it made me think that animals are programmed to seek shelter with humans in these catastrophic events, or an event like the flood.


More likely, the bird was just looking for a moderately dry place to sit for a minute, to get his bearings. If animals are somehow "drawn" to humans, where are all the others?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 10:53 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19618
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 50 of 899 (818627)
08-31-2017 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by riVeRraT
08-30-2017 11:45 PM


Re: Gimme Shelter
riVeRraT writes:

They constantly attack "Christians" and chop our faith down.


How can anybody chop somebody else's faith down? That's just a copout.

riVeRraT writes:

People are so misinformed that they look to humans to find God, instead of looking towards Jesus.


I look to another fictional character, Long John Silver.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by riVeRraT, posted 08-30-2017 11:45 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Diomedes, posted 08-31-2017 2:38 PM ringo has seen this message

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19618
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(2)
Message 51 of 899 (818628)
08-31-2017 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
08-31-2017 9:07 AM


Faith writes:

Does it remind us of the Flood perhaps?


Y'know what reminded me of the Flood? The flooding. The fact that there was an animal within a hundred miles doesn't add much.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 9:07 AM Faith has taken no action

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 899 (818629)
08-31-2017 12:03 PM


The idea that this falcon is evidence of the flood is no more or less stupid than any of the other arguments for the Flood I have seen here.

But has anyone considered that this bird may not be completely wild? Folks train these particular birds as pets, and I am sure that some of them escape and don't feel the desire to come back home.

Percy has set a low bar for discussion of this subject. If the discussion becomes serious, he will move the discussion to an appropriate thread. Is anyone here capable of making a serious argument that this bird is evidence for the Flood or can we just continue to just laugh at creationists the way we do anywhere except on EvC?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 1:22 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1383 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 53 of 899 (818632)
08-31-2017 12:17 PM


Evidence?
We have presented evidence in multiple threads that the flood never happened, and that evidence has been ignored or hand-waved away by true believers.

There is no point in going over it all again in a new thread.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 54 of 899 (818641)
08-31-2017 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by NoNukes
08-31-2017 12:03 PM


quote:

But has anyone considered that this bird may not be completely wild? Folks train these particular birds as pets, and I am sure that some of them escape and don't feel the desire to come back home.

I did. Apparently Cooper's Hawks are used in falconry, but aren't popular because they are hard to train. But that means they are more likely to fly off and not come back - always a risk with birds of prey. And some people do keep birds of prey as pets, even though it isn't really a good idea.

There's no way to tell for sure, but even if it is a wild bird there must be a lot more Cooper's Hawks around that didn't jump into taxis - not to mention all the rest of the urban wildlife. To jump to the conclusion that animals are "programmed" to seek shelter with humans based on a single example when so many have not is daft. To go on and try to use it to explain how animals got on to the mythical Ark, when it doesn't even fit the story is even dafter. And to then claim it as evidence for the Flood ? It's practically begging to be laughed at.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 12:03 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 5:19 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
Diomedes
Member (Idle past 125 days)
Posts: 973
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013


(1)
Message 55 of 899 (818644)
08-31-2017 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by ringo
08-31-2017 11:53 AM


Re: Gimme Shelter
riVeRraT writes:
People are so misinformed that they look to humans to find God, instead of looking towards Jesus.

I look to another fictional character, Long John Silver.

I'm partial to the Flying Spaghetti Monster myself. And I have visible proof!

Suck on that non-believers! RAmen.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by ringo, posted 08-31-2017 11:53 AM ringo has seen this message

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2227
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 56 of 899 (818648)
08-31-2017 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
08-31-2017 12:19 AM


Re: Harvey the Hawk updates
Harvey the Hurricane Hawk can pick the right host - someone very well stocked in his liquor cabinet!

- xongsmith, 5.7d

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 12:19 AM Faith has taken no action

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8552
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.4


(1)
Message 57 of 899 (818650)
08-31-2017 5:12 PM


But if this flood has carved a canyon.....now that would be cool.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 58 of 899 (818652)
08-31-2017 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by PaulK
08-31-2017 1:22 PM


but even if it is a wild bird there must be a lot more Cooper's Hawks around that didn't jump into taxis - not to mention all the rest of the urban wildlife.

That is because you are looking at it wrong. The countless animals that did not jump into a taxi remind us of what a miracle Noah's story about the animals arriving two by two is. The one bird that jumped into a taxi is evidence of the flood.

uh, no wait. The argument is stupid.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

I was thinking as long as I have my hands up … they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking — they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey

I never considered a difference of opinion in politics, in religion, in philosophy, as cause for withdrawing from a friend. Thomas Jefferson

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by PaulK, posted 08-31-2017 1:22 PM PaulK has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 207 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 59 of 899 (818657)
08-31-2017 6:17 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Faith
08-31-2017 12:19 AM


Re: Harvey the Hawk updates
Faith writes:

the taxi driver kept trying to get him to fly off and ended up taking him home with him to wait out the hurricane; eventually got him to an animal shelter.

The hawk is waiting for the dove to come back with an olive leaf.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Faith, posted 08-31-2017 12:19 AM Faith has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 207 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 60 of 899 (818658)
08-31-2017 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by NoNukes
08-31-2017 12:12 AM


There were people before the scientific method who were authorities on all things technical. In other words they were scientists.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 12:12 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by NoNukes, posted 08-31-2017 7:38 PM riVeRraT has taken no action
 Message 67 by Coyote, posted 08-31-2017 8:26 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.1
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2022