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Author Topic:   Evidence of the flood
Coyote
Member (Idle past 1382 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


(1)
Message 76 of 899 (818810)
09-02-2017 7:22 PM


No flood
There is simply no evidence for a global flood during historic times.

There is massive evidence that there was not a global flood about 4350 years ago.

Even my own archaeological research shows this--I don't need to rely on the research of others. My research shows continuity of a Native American mtDNA haplotype from 5300 years ago to the present. If there had been a global flood with an ark that haplotype would have been eliminated, to be replaced by haplotypes from the Middle East.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 7:46 PM Coyote has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 77 of 899 (818811)
09-02-2017 7:46 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by Coyote
09-02-2017 7:22 PM


Re: No flood
Gosh how you trust your unprovable dates.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by Coyote, posted 09-02-2017 7:22 PM Coyote has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Coyote, posted 09-02-2017 7:55 PM Faith has taken no action
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 1382 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 78 of 899 (818812)
09-02-2017 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
09-02-2017 7:46 PM


Re: No flood
Gosh how you trust your unprovable dates.

There's no point in you replying to my evidence, as you rely on scripture and belief instead of evidence.

We'll just agree to disagree.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

In the name of diversity, college student demands to be kept in ignorance of the culture that made diversity a value--StultisTheFool

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers

If I am entitled to something, someone else is obliged to pay--Jerry Pournelle

If a religion's teachings are true, then it should have nothing to fear from science...--dwise1

"Multiculturalism" demands that the US be tolerant of everything except its own past, culture, traditions, and identity.

Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other points of view--William F. Buckley Jr.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 7:46 PM Faith has taken no action

  
Pollux
Member
Posts: 277
Joined: 11-13-2011


Message 79 of 899 (818813)
09-02-2017 8:57 PM


On The Ark
I have this picture in my head of the Ark covered with insects, birds, and pterosaurs escaping the water. The carnivores would have food for some time, first feasting on the herbivore ones then the bigger eating the smaller until only the biggest and strongest were left, and maybe could have seen out the whole Flood!

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 20837
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 80 of 899 (818815)
09-03-2017 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by riVeRraT
09-02-2017 6:59 PM


Takes all my statements out of context and makes a fictional argument. I stand behind everything I said. If you don't get it, you are free to read it again.

I read your nonsense several times already. Clearly it's not in your best interests to be clear about what you're saying, so you try to be as confusing and ambiguous as possible. Will you be changing your mind again tonight about whether there was a global flood?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by riVeRraT, posted 09-02-2017 6:59 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:34 AM Percy has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 81 of 899 (818816)
09-03-2017 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by riVeRraT
09-02-2017 6:54 PM


quote:

It's not a joke.

Well I am sorry if I was being too charitable,

quote:

Are you denying what you seen with your own eyes in the video? It's pretty obvious to me the flood caused that scenario. Do you have an alternate explanation?

For clarity, "a flood" and "the flood" are 2 different things.


If "the flood" means Noah's Flood as it almost always does in this context then your claim is just silly.

If you mean "the flood in Houston" then "a flood" would still be correct (making your distinction deceptive at best) and your post looks even more like an intentional joke.


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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17171
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 82 of 899 (818818)
09-03-2017 12:56 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by riVeRraT
09-02-2017 6:57 PM


quote:

No, jar said it as an absolute. Funny how the Christians get "nit picked" but jar and atheists don't.

In other words, jar was simply speaking s little loosely - as anyone who calls the Earth a sphere would be doing (and calling the Earth a sphere is known to be not exactly correct). Hardly a matter worth mentioning.

As for the other part all I will say is that it is funny how "Christians" feel free to crtiticse others - without much concern for honesty or truth - yet whine is horribly when far better founded criticisms are made of them. It's not exactly Christian behaviour.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by riVeRraT, posted 09-02-2017 6:57 PM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by riVeRraT, posted 09-03-2017 11:38 AM PaulK has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 681 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


(1)
Message 83 of 899 (818829)
09-03-2017 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
09-02-2017 7:46 PM


Re: No flood: the earth is very very very old
Gosh how you trust your unprovable dates.

See Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 again, Faith. Remember where you can't show any errors or mistakes or alternate fantasy that explains all the correlations?

Try the new edition: The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 1) followed by The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 2) and the soon to be released The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 3)

There is massive objective empirical evidence that the earth is very very very old, so much that it is easy to compile numerous dating methods that rely on simple counting to validate the dates, and numerous enough to show consilience of results from the different methods, consilience that would not be possible unless they all measure the same thing: accurate old age.

And in those various methods is evidence that a global flood never happened in their age range ... covering millions of years

All you have is denial.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : .


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 09-02-2017 7:46 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 8:23 AM RAZD has seen this message
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 09-03-2017 11:33 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 681 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 84 of 899 (818831)
09-03-2017 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by RAZD
09-03-2017 7:20 AM


3 living trees alone show NO flood at 4350 ya
4350 ya would be circa 2330 BCE ...

From The Age of the Earth (version 3 no 1 part 1), Message 3:

quote:
  • the "Methuselah" tree(1), with a minimum germination date of 2832 BCE
  • the "Prometheus" tree(2) (aka WPN-114), with a measured age of 4862 when cut down in 1964 for research, however this is a minimum age because the core of the tree is missing, giving it a minimum germination date of 2898 BCE (but likely older).
  • the "Schulman's" tree(3) (my name for the tree because Edmund Schulman took the core samples and he was a pioneer in dendrochronology in the area), with a minimum germination date of 3051 BCE
  • the "Ancient Sentinels"(4) - standing dead trees, as old as 7,000 years, however we have no information on their germination or termination dates at this point.

The "Methuselah" tree is older by ~500 years
The "Prometheus" tree was ~530 years older when cut down over 50 years ago
The "Schulman" tree is older by ~600 years

Dead wood lying on the ground is older yet, and it did not float away in any global flood.

Science never absolutely proves things, but it does disprove things. Things that are false or invalid. The evidence of these three trees alone disproves a global flood in the last 5,000 years, and make any belief in such a flood within that time period a laughable delusional fantasy.

And that is just the beginning of what the objective empirical evidence of age shows.

A young earth? Forgetaboutit. Also disproved by trees.

The earth is not flat
The earth is not the center of the solar system
The earth is not the center of the milky way galaxy
The earth is not the center of the universe

The earth is very, very, very old: get used to it.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
RebelAmerican☆Zen☯Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 7:20 AM RAZD has seen this message

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 Message 85 by jar, posted 09-03-2017 9:19 AM RAZD has seen this message

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33957
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.3


(3)
Message 85 of 899 (818832)
09-03-2017 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by RAZD
09-03-2017 8:23 AM


Re: 3 living trees alone show NO flood at 4350 ya
There are also styles, art and technologies that were local to a region or culture that continue right through the possible periods when the Biblical Flood stories were supposed to have occurred and absolutely NO evidence of all the world's cultures and civilizations disappearing within a one year period only to be gradually replaced by a culture radiating out from the Middle East.

The idea that there was ever a Biblical Flood is simply silly.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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 Message 84 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 8:23 AM RAZD has seen this message

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 720 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 86 of 899 (818833)
09-03-2017 11:33 AM
Reply to: Message 83 by RAZD
09-03-2017 7:20 AM


Re: No flood: the earth is very very very old
All you have is denial.

What I have is God's word. You have the denial.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 7:20 AM RAZD has replied

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 87 of 899 (818834)
09-03-2017 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by Percy
09-03-2017 12:19 AM


Percy writes:

I read your nonsense several times already. Clearly it's not in your best interests to be clear about what you're saying, so you try to be as confusing and ambiguous as possible. Will you be changing your mind again tonight about whether there was a global flood?

Me thinks you are confusing "a flood" with "the flood" and now "global flood". But nice try on dodging the topic.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Percy, posted 09-03-2017 12:19 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Percy, posted 09-03-2017 7:23 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 88 of 899 (818835)
09-03-2017 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by PaulK
09-03-2017 12:56 AM


Paulk writes:

In other words, jar was simply speaking s little loosely

Then there is that. Only people that believe there was no flood are allowed to speak losely. Those that have been branded to believe in a flood cannot. I hope you can see your bigotry.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2017 12:56 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 93 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2017 12:17 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 97 by jar, posted 09-03-2017 2:24 PM riVeRraT has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 89 of 899 (818837)
09-03-2017 11:42 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Pollux
09-02-2017 8:57 PM


Re: On The Ark
Pollux writes:

I have this picture in my head of the Ark covered with insects, birds, and pterosaurs escaping the water. The carnivores would have food for some time, first feasting on the herbivore ones then the bigger eating the smaller until only the biggest and strongest were left, and maybe could have seen out the whole Flood!

Except that we have direct evidence that animals do not behave normally in crisis. Thanks for the input.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Pollux, posted 09-02-2017 8:57 PM Pollux has taken no action

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 206 days)
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 90 of 899 (818838)
09-03-2017 11:51 AM


On topic
So Pollux, Faith, and RAZD are the only ones to reply directly to my point in the OP. What I did by posting this was to show that there is evidence that part of the story on THE GLOBAL FLOOD, is true. If a flood had started, animals have been observed to seek shelter with humans. This is evidence that part of the story could be true. So essentially we have evidence.

The rest of you went on and on how we have no evidence and went off you your usual bigoted attacks on people of faith. Just admit it, this is evidence in support of the story. Doesn't mean it happened. So unless you can show how animals evolved into this behavior, (asked once already) you can no longer say there is zero evidence.

Keep in mind I am going against my own personal belief that there is no evidence (of a flood) by posting this. If there was a flood, and God exists, He chose to hide the evidence from us. That is my belief. Or we aren't smart enough to figure it out yet.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Coyote, posted 09-03-2017 12:03 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 92 by JonF, posted 09-03-2017 12:07 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 94 by PaulK, posted 09-03-2017 12:33 PM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 95 by RAZD, posted 09-03-2017 2:15 PM riVeRraT has replied

  
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