Message 571 of 606 (830400) 03-28-2018 1:40 PM

Reply to: Message 570 by NoNukes 03-28-2018 1:08 PM

Of course it's a starting point, why would you think anything else? All this stuff is pretty new, new to me for starters. The videos might inspire people to get deeper into it all.

However, what would you expect to be convinced of anyway? One of them is about a woman in Florida who looks half her age living on a raw vegan diet most of which she grows in her own yard. The other is about a man in Baltimore who started growing microgreens in his house for his own consumption and then took over a whole bedroom to grow enough to sell to his neighbors.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Message 572 of 606 (830423) 03-28-2018 11:38 PM

Reply to: Message 571 by Faith 03-28-2018 1:40 PM

Great question. The reason for pointing out that videos are just a starting point is because your past behavior suggests that you act otherwise. I'd be happy to cite examples if you'd like. The reason for not doing so is to avoid the kind of topic drift that my first post caused. But if you really are up for hearing it, let me know.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Message 573 of 606 (830430) 03-29-2018 9:20 AM

Reply to: Message 562 by PaulK 03-28-2018 1:22 AM

I am a Type II Diabetic, and thankfully my pancreas still makes enough insulin to cover me should I need it. I apologize for sounding somewhat arrogant claiming I know more about this stuff than all of you---I don't---I too am learning. The topic of diet and what constitutes the best one for certain individuals is contested to this day even among medical professionals. No two people are alike--and what works for me may not be what you or Faith or anyone else needs. Dr.Jason Fung, though admittedly selling books on the subject, appears to me to be a credible source of wisdom. Critics will accuse me of being lazy and not doing my own scientific research on the subject, but whenever it comes to something that affects me personally, I DO my homework. You say that "if my diabetes has progressed to the point where I need insulin..." but what you need to understand is that just because my doctors have prescribed the insulin does not mean that I actually need as much as they prescribe. (I know you guys don't trust nor watch videos, but in this one Dr.Fung defends his science on the matter)

My Endocrinologist and I don't agree on the science, and though she has the credentials on her side, I have personal evidence that the low carb low insulin approach is better for my health. Her concern is treating the symptom---my high blood sugar. Research shows, however, that in the matter of insulin resistance, extra insulin actually increases the resistance and makes the problem worse in the long term. I see her a week from today, so I will share what our conversation was at that appointment.

Message 574 of 606 (830431) 03-29-2018 9:29 AM

Reply to: Message 563 by Faith 03-28-2018 1:36 AM

Dr.Fung explains the science behind lowering the insulin, and I am not too worried about my insulin dropping too low at this point. I am prescribed both short-acting and long-acting insulin. I still take the long-acting but am fighting to discontinue the short-acting provided my meals are not high carb meals which require higher insulin to digest.

Again, my argument is that continual reliance on higher insulin doses only increases the insulin resistance which led to the problem in the first place.

Message 575 of 606 (830432) 03-29-2018 9:36 AM

Reply to: Message 571 by Faith 03-28-2018 1:40 PM

I have no doubt that your energy would be maximized(for your age and health) were you to become more active but how does one simply become more active if they dont have the energy?

Message 576 of 606 (830433) 03-29-2018 9:46 AM

Reply to: Message 573 by Phat 03-29-2018 9:20 AM

quote:

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I am a Type II Diabetic, and thankfully my pancreas still makes enough insulin to cover me should I need it.

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That is WHY it is a bad sign that you have been prescribed insulin. Metformin is the first-line treatment for Type II diabetes, and there are other things they should try before using insulin. If you had a mild case you shouldn’t be using insulin at all.

I am going to say it again. Watch your blood sugar very carefully. You may not need all the insulin but letting your blood sugar get out of control can have very serious effects. You have a severe condition, and if you are going to take the harder path to managing it you have to be extra careful.

I am not saying don’t do it, I am saying do it right, because it could get much worse for you if you get it wrong.

Message 578 of 606 (830437) 03-29-2018 10:05 AM

Reply to: Message 575 by Phat 03-29-2018 9:36 AM

It's arthritis that keeps me from being active though, not lack of energy -- I have to use a walker. Barring a miracle, I have no illusions I'll be starting a garden in this life. And they say it can take a couple of years to get a vegan diet going. I'm not sure it's lack of motivation as much as that it's simply hard to give up habits to switch to a completely new way of eating -- and finding out what are the best foods among all the possibilities. I just try this and that and keep trying things, and try to get off some old habits I know aren't good for me, but that's very hard, I have to find other things to take their place or it just isn't going to work.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Message 579 of 606 (830438) 03-29-2018 10:20 AM

Reply to: Message 578 by Faith 03-29-2018 10:05 AM

Arthritis is an inflammation problem, and likely requires numerous medications which cannot be eliminated. Excess sugar causes much of the inflammation indirectly, however...I would research this more in order to confirm my assessment. If you were to drop the higher glycemic carbs such as potatoes and bread (oh but they taste so comforting! ) and if you consumed a few healthy oils and fats such as salmon and avocados, you may find some success with controlling the inflammation through natural means as well as the medications which you have been prescribed.

The reality about food is that it has so many emotional connotations as well as simple nutritional ones, and managing ones own diet requires discipline, (in our case, prayer and surrender) and mindfulness as to the BIG picture. I wish you well in your journey as you attempt to control and minimize the harmful effects of arthritis that limits your mobility and may even make you cranky at times.

Message 580 of 606 (830440) 03-29-2018 10:39 AM

Reply to: Message 579 by Phat 03-29-2018 10:20 AM

I'm also quite aware of the inflammation problem, which seems to be behind most chronic diseases. I may eventually have to give up the potatoes too, but getting enough calories on a plant-based diet seems to require some kind of starchy food. Not that I'm lacking calories at this stage thanks to my cream and butter habit.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Message 581 of 606 (830442) 03-29-2018 11:25 AM

Reply to: Message 573 by Phat 03-29-2018 9:20 AM

I am a little puzzled. I thought that Type II Diabetics did not take insulin. For that reason, I was very concerned when you talked about substituting a diet regimen for your education.

When you are attempting tricks for maintaining your diet, I highly recommend that you monitor yourself often. The problem with diabetes is the effect out of control sugar levels has on the deterioration of our organs including kidneys, eyes, and heart over time. The longer you have uncontrolled glucose levels, the more damage you can accumulate. You don't want to run a lab experiment on any of that stuff without strict monitoring, multiple times a day. And if your favorite tricks are not working, you need to bail.

Counter to what you have been saying, the mainstream advice is that it may be possible to manage the condition using diet and exercise. However, your doctor is probably going to make a call based on what you tell them, and what your levels are at the time you are seen.

If your doctor is competent, then they are going to monitor your A1C levels over time and adjust your medication. You may be able to do better than that if you monitor often, and watch your diet, but your doctor's advice is likely the best possible with the limited information from your tests and what you tell him/her. There is no question that your doctor knows way more about the subject than you do.

Message 584 of 606 (830480) 03-31-2018 9:47 AM

Reply to: Message 558 by Granny Magda 03-27-2018 7:07 PM

Take this over here at Health 4 Life~The Science Behind Consumption and I again challenge you to refute dr.Fung. You got me a little on Rosedale, but I still believe his science is sound---apart from his ignorance in his talk which you found.

Message 585 of 606 (830484) 03-31-2018 11:25 AM

Reply to: Message 561 by Faith 03-27-2018 7:53 PM

It is pretty standard knowledge that poor diet exacerbates artery disease. The point is that a study like this really requires at two control groups; one with no intervention and one with an improved diet, just not Esselstyn's uber-strict diet. That would be the only way to test if all of Esselstyn's extreme protocols are really necessary or if just any sensible diet could have done as well.

None of Esselstyn's patients seem to have dropped their med's. That was not the point of the study.

*AHEM*

quote:

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A Strategy to Arrest and Reverse Coronary Artery Disease: A 5-Year Longitudinal Study of a Single Physician's Practice

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They weren't following any doctor-prescribed diet. That one woman was following a doughnut and gravy based diet. Diets only work if you follow them.

I quite agree that doctors typically don'y know enough about nutrition and that more could and should be done to integrate nutrition into everyday practise. When I say that nutrition is already part of medical science, I mean that nutrition is a standard part of our scientific understanding. How well that understanding is applied in clinical practise is a slightly different issue.

Mutate and Survive