The Tension of Faith

Once again, reality simply shows you are wrong. I am not displaying any anti-Christian bias since the reality, the fact, the truth is that I am and continue to be a Cradle Creedal Christian. Even if that were true, which of course reality shows your position is not true, reality trumps logic. It's very possible to have a logical statement that is factually wrong and when people make claims like Biblical Inerrancy that do not stand up when compared to reality your imagined logical assertions are simply wrong.The God character in the Genesis 2&3 stories does not show a fall, does not show a separation, does not show a fallen mind but rather specifically says that thanks to the gift in the Garden of Eden human minds were expanded and improved to be god-like.I have to ask Faith, have you ever actually read Genesis 2&3?

quote:

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Genesis 3:22 And the Lord God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil:

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The Bible itself is really good and massive evidence of God's fictionality. One clear example is that the God character in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the God character in Genesis 2&3.The God found in Genesis 1 is competent, overarching, sure, decisive but also separate, aloof and not interacting with the creation.The God in Genesis 2&3 is unsure, ignorant, bumbling, fearful, learning on the job, dishonest but also human, empathetic, caring, and in direct interaction with the creation.The Gods of the Bible are all fictional caricatures and plot devices.

Of course the Book of James doesn't even mention Jesus' death or resurrection or even his divinity but rather seems to use "Lord" as an honorific or title similar to Prince or Dear Leader.

It's not that unusual a position, particularly within the liberal branches of Christianity.It's not that unusual even when looking through a Biblical lens. Most of the references to Jesus in the New Testament are of Jesus teaching about behavior after all.

That's another of the dogma examples that just seems silly, juvenile. Sorry but it really doesn't seem to have any meaning or value.

If that is true then there is no value in Christianity and it should just be a footno0te if even that. Jesus is a failed Messiah which is why the Christian Marketers changed the definition of what the Messiah would be.If that is the sole reason for Christianity then it is of no value whatsoever.I happen to think Christianity is far more then just that.

No, of course there is no source material related to the God of the Bible just as there is no "God of the Bible". There are absolutely not original manuscripts of any material in any of the many different "Bibles" created by the different chapters of Club Christian.There are stories written by unknown authors that contain various tales of encounters with God but they are often inconsistent, shown to evolve over time and retelling and contradictory.

Yes, you have made that claim and the only issue is of course that just as with the Bible you are simply taking things out of context.The fact is that I am a Christian and thus my position is a Christian position.Sorry Charlie but thems the facts.

Well as a Creedal Christian I believe the basics found in the Nicene Creed. Well, Gandhi never started a religion so I am not at all sure what you are asking. And why should I believe that the Path I choose is a better path than that chosen by others? After all, Jesus was never a Christian, Jesus was born, raised and died a Jew. Christianity is a religion created by others, not by Jesus.

There you go taking pieces parts out of context yet again.And that is where I see your version of Christianity diminishing and perverting Christianity.I have already said that I believe the Nicene Creed, but I also don't take pieces parts out of it. Of course there is no such thing as a Ghandian and I too am often critical of Christians and much of Christianity.And if you believe the teaching of Christianity hinges on Jesus death, resurrection and ascension then I think you too have simply missed the whole point of Jesus life.A pity.But that does not mean you are not a Christian, just a somewhat failed Christian.

And that is simply an incorrect statement. I have told you clearly what I believe and it is time you stopped misrepresenting what I have said. And your posit5ion is still totally irrelevant and has absolutely nothing to do with my beliefs.You really need to try to actually address what it written to you by me and by others and stop just making stuff up.Even if Jesus was just another failed Messiah that has nothing to do with what Jesus taught or whether or not I am a Christian.

Absolutely. and there are at least nine examples of people being resurrected in the Bible. Nope, I certainly would not. Resurrection has a quality of miracle and an unexplained nature. Medical and even strange such events with rational explanations do not fall into the category of theology where resurrection lies.

Nonsense. Even Paul was resurrected. Sorry but there simply is nothing different about Jesus resurrection from all the other resurrections in the Bible stories. Even Jesus ascension is not unique in the Bible.But the point remains, even if Jesus never lived, even if Jesus was not resurrected, the teaching contained in the Bible stories can still provide a valid path to guide someones life.Also the fact of Jesus living, Jesus death, Jesus resurrection and Jesus ascension are irrelevant to the foundational beliefs of Christianity. Even if none of it ever really happened people believed that Jesus did live, did teach, did die, did arise from the dead and did ascend to heaven and that at some future date will judge all.It is the belief not any reality that is relevant.In addition, none of that matters in anyway on whether or not I am a Christian.

LOL Exactly. Doing what Jesus taught, what the Buddha taught before him, what Judaism teaches, what Islam teaches, what most atheist practice, is a good way to live one's life.That has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I am a Christian.Christianity is but one possible path, not "THE Path". It is the path I happened to take. But just as Jesus points out in Luke, just as with the Jews, we are NOT the Chosen People. All people are God's creation and God's people and that includes those that follow Gandhi and atheists and any faith or no faith.Christianity is only a collection of paths, not "The Path" and sometimes maybe the right path but too often it seems Christianity is a path that leads nowhere.

I object because that is simply wrong.I am NOT a cultural Christian but just a Christian.It really is that simple.Maybe it would help if I explained that I am a Christian who no longer thinks as a child.