The Tension of Faith

Too funny and typical of your thought pattern.Some of my beliefs are compatible with the majority of religions and even secular humanism.That of course has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I am a Christian. I am a Christian who no longer thinks as a child and one that actually can read with comprehension. It's not hubris but an attempt at education.

See, that is a perfect example of either not being able to read or not being able to comprehend.Go back and read Message 111 and Message 155 and Message 266 and Message 349 and Message 358 and Message 369 and if you want I can likely point you to other posts.The fact is as I have explained to you I am and have been for almost three quarters of a century a Cradle Creedal Christian raised in a Christian family, educated in a Christian school and most importantly, a Confirmed member of an acknowledge Christian faith.Are you aware of the Nicene Creed (in at least one of the various versions)?Are you aware of Baptism and Confirmation?I believe what is stated in the creeds but I am also honest enough that I do not take pieces parts of the creeds or the Bible out of context.I am also honest enough to acknowledge that what I believe is almost certainly wrong.TTBOMK the Nicene Creed is peculiar to and particular to Club Christian.I am not a "cultural Christian" what ever that is but simply a member of the Episcopal Church.They are called beliefs for a reason instead of being called knowledge or fact.

What does that even mean. Have you ever read Matthew 7:21? Read what I have posted but read for comprehension.There is a difference between belief and knowledge or fact. Jesus said it is not believing in Jesus but what we do that is relevant.Beliefs can determine membership. The Creeds are an example. The Nicene Creed starts with "We believe..." or "I believe ...".They are a means to determine membership in a given Chapter of Club Christian. They are a simplified statement of beliefs.But beliefs only have value if they lead to actions. Read Luke 6 and pay particular attention from verse 43 to the end of the chapter.The Creeds do not tell us what we should do.Remember, these are supposed to be what Jesus said; not what Paul said or John said or Peter said but what Jesus said.Jesus' lessons and teachings go beyond mere beliefs and are about how to be a Christian and simply claiming Jesus as Lord means next to nothing.But the thing that seems to cause you and some others the greatest angst may be my pointing out that beliefs do not have to be based on reality to be of value.

What part of I believe the Nicene Creed and I do not take pieces parts of the Nicene creed out of context do you not understand.

And that is why I believe what you were taught is nothing but a perversion of what Jesus taught and what the Bible, including John & Paul and Jesus, actually say. If you change disrespect to question I would say that you are correct but that I think that is what everyone of any religion needs to do. I question if what is commonly taught in Christianity today would be anything Jesus would even recognize much less sanction or want to be associated with.

Too funny.Yes, they believed them but it is irrelevant whether or not they actually happened. And yet again, learn to read, comprehend and actually think.You repeated assertion that "The Gospel accounts without the resurrection make Jesus delusional and if that is the case then secular humanism makes much more sense than Christianity." is also totally irrelevant to whether or not I am a Christian.It really is that simple.

I do not mock people but I do try to help those in need.What part of "I believe the Nicene Creed but do not take pieces parts of it out of context and am a Confirmed Member of a Recognized Chapter of club Christian." are you have problems understanding?Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

A good start.The Nicene Creed is a series of statements of "beliefs" not of faith. The Nicene Creed in toto is a Statement of Faith.It even says "I(We) believe..."And in Message 371 did you or did you not post: Is that not taking pieces parts out of the Nicene Creed?Had I not already said on many occasions that I believe the Nicene Creed?Is the Nicene Creed a Statement of Faith of "Ghandians" whatever they are?It really is simple.Belief is not synonymous with Know or Fact or Truth or Reality.It is irrelevant whether or not the things that Christians believe are based on fact or reality.The vast body of evidence show that religions, faith, regardless of which specific one is examined, are simply wrong. There is no reason to think Christianity is any different. But that has nothing to do with what someone believes or what makes them a Christian.Believing the Nicene Creed is an element of Trinitarian Christianity.But there are also Unitarian Christians.Or are you still wanting to play the "True Christian Game"?

Learn to read. It really is a necessary first step.No where do I say I don't believe the things to be correct. Sheesh.I do say that it is immaterial whether or not they are factual, true, correct or reality based.People believe lots of things that are NOT factual, true, correct or reality based. Too funny.There is NO body of evidence that Jesus even existed. The New Testament stories are all contradictory and show ALL the classic signs of evolving folk tales.You are back with the evidence nonsense.Belief is not based on evidence.Edited by jar, : fix quote box

I think it is a great example of how religions evolve. After all the whole concept of the Trinity was created as a means of labeling some Christians as "Not Real Christians" and so not in the Club.It is evolving dogma and as is usually the fact, more political than theological.Even Unitarianism itself continues to evolve.

Oh stop! You do know that Micah was supposedly written about 700 years before Jesus was even born and so does not refer to Jesus?

Which is why every religion and every flavor of every religion makes up a knowable God. That is why the God in Genesis 1 is entirely different than the God in Genesis 2&3 or all the other Biblical Gods found in the stories. Each generation, each Chapter of Each Club makes up a God and evolves the God they create to make it knowable and comfortable for them.

The author or more likely the authors, editor and redactors of Micah.

Only a very sill sophomoric argument; certainly not an argument worth much consideration.But that is also totally irrelevant; what does the actual evidence show?Does the God in Genesis 1 have the same characteristics as the God in Genesis 2&3?Does all of the physical evidence show that there was never a Biblical Flood or Special Creation or Exodus or Conquest of Canaan?Does the tale of Paul's encounter change with every retelling?Does the Great Commission evolve with every telling?Do the two creation accounts contradict one another both by order of creation as well as by method?Does the physical reality show the both creation accounts are simply factually false?The evidence is overwhelming that the Bible is a human creation with absolutely no single point of view, no consistency and no single purpose.But it is also totally irrelevant.People can believe in things that are not based on fact, reality, reason, logic or even common sense.The people who wrote the Bible stories were under the very same handicaps we experience; they were trying to explain what THEY believed.If I believe in the Nicene Creed, even if there is no God, no Holy Spirit, Jesus never existed, there is no life after death or judgement or salvation; I still believe in the Nicene Creed.It really is that simple.

Bullshit Phat.Christianity, the religion, is based 100% on what people believe and not on anything they do. That is why there are hundreds if not thousands of different versions of Christianity. There is no such things as "Christianity"; instead it is an evolving creation of each of the different Chapters of Club Christian and reflects the independent beliefs of each of those creations.What you may have meant to say is that my belief is that Christians (as well as all others) should do what the Bible claims Jesus said everyone (not just Christians) should do.But that is my belief.Other Christians market a Christianity based on "Not Prefect, Just Saved" or on "Born Again" or on "The essence of Christianity is Christs Death, Resurrection and ascension" or "Washed in the Blood of the Lamb" or "Onward Christian Soldiers" and on and on.Nowhere is Christianity based on what we do.It is always what we believe.