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Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Elections are won in the primaries | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
quote: The big issue still comes back to organization and money, While Sanders proved small money can produce, you still need a backbone a core to orchestrate this on the level you're talking about. Sure it can start slow a few having success this way but you're talking about spoiling Bannon here and now. We need our "new" Republicans now.
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
quote: You don't seem to get what he's saying. Rather run a progressive in a Republican primary and you spoil the primary as you can win after the vote splits far right /established Edited by DC85, : No reason given.
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
"Rather run a progressive in a Republican primary and you spoil the primary as you can win after the vote splits far right "
I discussed with RAZD the baggage that comes with a Republican candidate. He seems to think that some of that baggage is acceptable. I agree in principle, but I don't agree with RAZD's take on what is acceptable. I barely trust the Democrats... Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
You don't seem to get it. I am not going to vote for or pursue pushing a Republican ... It's not a republican, its a progressive candidate running in the republican primary ... because whoever wins the republican primary is virtually guaranteed to win the general election. Gerrymandering shifts the actual election to the primary, so to beat the nasty republicans you have to run in their primary ... and get all the democrat/liberal/progressive/independent/etc people in the district to register republican and vote in the primary for the faux republican candidate. Sheesh.by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Sure it can start slow a few having success this way but you're talking about spoiling Bannon here and now. We need our "new" Republicans now. Indeed. I've talked to some democrat party people about it but interest seems low. Maybe after they lose in 2018 and Bannon wins and things get worse they might start thinking. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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anglagard Member (Idle past 1159 days) Posts: 2339 From: Socorro, New Mexico USA Joined: |
Well. in response to the title - I am likely considered too liberal considering I am DSA, but that is not the point I want to address.
RAZD, I have been somewhat following this thread and feel I understand how your strategy may be successful under some circumstances. However, I believe those circumstances are not presently as universal as you may believe. You are In Rhode Island, not West Texas, so I would like to point out some other factors that diminish the strategy you propose in my situation. These are the questions I would have to answer Yes to to have a snowball's chance in hell of even being a viable candidate for school board in this county: 1) Were you born in Howard County?2) Have you lived in Howard County your entire life? 3) Are you a Southern Baptist or Church of Christ member in good standing who attends church regularly? 4) Do you like country music? 5) Are you a registered Republican and have been so your entire life? 6) Are you connected to the petroleum industry or cotton farming? 7) Do you have any vices? Do you smoke, drink, or do illegal drugs? Here are my answers: 1) No, I was born in Fresno County, California in 1957.2} No, not even the majority. My formative years were spent in San Luis Obispo County, California in the 70s. The minute I retire, the skidmarks I leave in getting the hell out of Texas will be noticeably visible until the road is repaved. 3) While a Methodist, Lutheran. or Presbyterian, may have an outside chance, they will be starting with one strike against in some voter's minds. Mandatory church attendance is non-negotiable around here. The best I could do is Unitarian Universalism, a deal breaker. 4) No, not in general. Shit, I am a deadhead (among other things), an immediate disqualifier. 5) No, not ever. 6) I am a librarian, worse I am a male librarian, which makes my masculinity and sexual orientation questionable around here. 7) ![]() As you can see, any following of your strategy on my part would be impossible under the circumstances and it would be quite difficult even to find a proxy My current purpose is to shift the Democratic Party to the left, at least for now, given the circumstances. However there is a possibility for me to invoke your strategy in a statewide election. Dan Patrick is running for the Democratic nomination for the Governor's race in Texas, an automatic vote in the general. Should he be a shoe-in, there is one of those rare but purportedly reasonable Republicans running in their primary namely Scott Milder (oh, the irony), that due to considerable favorable remarks on the liberal side, might have my vote if Patrick is well ahead in the polls. Since this is an open primary state, in this one instance your strategy might be workable for my support. Read not to contradict and confute, not to believe and take for granted, not to find talk and discourse, but to weigh and consider. - Francis Bacon
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
RAZD, I have been somewhat following this thread and feel I understand how your strategy may be successful under some circumstances. However, I believe those circumstances are not presently as universal as you may believe. You are In Rhode Island, not West Texas, so I would like to point out some other factors that diminish the strategy you propose in my situation. Both Texas and RI are more like the middle situation, gerrymandered to provide a majority in every district.
Texas is a lost cause in my book, I'm looking at states that are heavily gerrymandered so that a minority wins, the right hand situation. Like North Carolina and Michigan. An independent commission charged with creating districts so that representatives reflected the diversity of the population would make it so there would be two yellow districts and three green districts, as any other alternative favors one party over the other disproportionately to the population. Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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DC85 Member Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
Texas is a lost cause in my book, I'm looking at states that are heavily gerrymandered so that a minority wins Texas is HEAVILY gerrymandered and isn't nearly a given for a "conservative" in parts of the state as people think it is.( Civil rights groups descended on a San Antonio courthouse Monday to challenge the constitutionality of the state’s current redistricting maps and accuse Republican legislators of deliberately drawing them to dilute the voting power of minorities. )
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 1057 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Agreed. Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio, and the Valley can all go pretty D. Here in Anglagard's and my corner of the state, not so much. Like 85% for Dubya the second time! But we're going to fight the fight....
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Texas is HEAVILY gerrymandered and isn't nearly a given for a "conservative" in parts of the state as people think it is. So there is hope. And another place to try Faux Republican Progressive candidates ... But my personal opinion is that districts need to be abolished altogether and a different metric used to select representatives, one that will reflect the diversity of the population, for instance one that results in half women and half men, one that reflects minorities in proportion to their population, one that reflects different economic levels. Perhaps by lottery ... with 3 year term, 1/3rd chosen every year. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : .by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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Rrhain Member (Idle past 329 days) Posts: 6351 From: San Diego, CA, USA Joined: |
RAZD writes:
quote: No, for you forget about how legislatures work, or specifically the national House of Representatives and Senate. In the House, there is a vote for the Speaker. This always falls along party lines. Even if you vote for the "good" Republican, that Republican is going to vote for the horrendous candidate that is put forward by the Republicans to be the Speaker rather than allow the Democrat to be the Speaker. Thus, we will continue to have Ryan as Speaker of the House and thus, it doesn't matter how "good" you think your Republican is: The Republican agenda will be the only thing that is allowed to the floor. You really think your "good" Republican is going to vote against the Republican for Speakership? Not if they expect to remain a Republican. Have you forgotten the "Hastert Rule"? It's a bit misnamed because Gingrich followed it, too, but it's how the Republican Party has been running things in the House since the 90s: Only if a majority of Republicans would vote for a bill is it allowed to a vote. Even if a majority of the House would vote for the bill, it will never see the light of day unless a majority of the Republicans will vote for it. So congratulations on your "good" Republican...it won't do any good because the only votes that are going to come are going to be the ones your "good" Republican is going to go "bad" on. In the Senate, it's more direct: Whichever party has the majority is the one that has the control and by convention, it is the one that has the longest record. So your "good" Republican won't stop McConnell from being in charge of the Senate. And again, the party in control sets the agenda and the bills you wish your "good" Republican would vote for will never see the light of day. That's why there is no such thing as a "good" Republican. The system is designed to perpetuate the power of the party that managed to get the most seats. The only way you could get anything done out of this is to vote the entire Republican party out of office and replace them with "good" Republicans. So why not just vote for the actual candidate who champions those policies you are seeking to have enacted rather than a fake one who can't do what you want them to do? Why vote for a fake Republican when you can vote for a real liberal? One who isn't ashamed to call themselves such? One who doesn't have to keep up the facade to maintain their ability to get votes from other Republicans by voting against your interests? Your strategy is to put up a candidate whom you know is going to sell you out immediately and will continue to sell you out in order to maintain their ability to get elected all because you hope they might vote a certain way on a certain bill? A bill that will likely never make it to the floor due to the leadership that this fake candidate installed?Rrhain Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time. Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Your strategy is to put up a candidate whom you know is going to sell you out immediately and will continue to sell you out in order to maintain their ability to get elected all because you hope they might vote a certain way on a certain bill? A bill that will likely never make it to the floor due to the leadership that this fake candidate installed? Sorry, no, that is not the strategy. The strategy is to elect a progressive to the house by winning the republican primary. The progressive would side with the democrats not the republicans. How else do you expect to win back a majority in the house? Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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NoNukes Inactive Member |
The strategy is to elect a progressive to Congress No that isn't what you are trying to do. Instead you are selling off a good chunk of progressive positions in the hope of electing someone less Republicany. And you believe you can find enough voters in a gerrymandered district to win without a runoff. The democrats running for office in your district must truly suck. For most of us, your plan isn't an answer. Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846) I was thinking as long as I have my hands up they’re not going to shoot me. This is what I’m thinking they’re not going to shoot me. Wow, was I wrong. -- Charles Kinsey We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World. Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1727 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
No that isn't what you are trying to do. Instead you are selling off a good chunk of progressive positions in the hope of electing someone less Republicany. Curious how people are telling me what I mean, especially when it isn't true. The idea is to elect a progressive. Period. The idea is that the election essentially takes place in the primary because of gerrymandering -- so bring your candidate to the republican primary and run against one or more (the more the merrier) republicans. Have everyone in the district vote in the republican primary. Yes there are more republican voters than liberal/progressive voters because of gerrymandering, but IF you can take some votes from the republican OR the republican ticket is split THEN a progressive/liberal could win the primary ... and then you have one or two democrat/progressive/liberal candidates in the general election. Winning the republican primary doesn't make you a republican. It is a simple plot to subvert the gerrymandered districting by taking the election to the primary. Sadly I am astounded that people I regard as above average intelligence can't see beyond party labels ... Enjoyby our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)
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xongsmith Member Posts: 2643 From: massachusetts US Joined: Member Rating: 5.8
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RAZD, they won't ever get elected in the R primaries. The talk radios will kill them before arrival. You're counting on no brains from the R side.
- xongsmith, 5.7d
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