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Author Topic:   "The Flood" deposits as a sea transgressive/regressive sequence ("Walther's Law")
Taq
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Message 66 of 224 (820731)
09-25-2017 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
09-24-2017 11:03 PM


Re: an alternative time frame
Faith writes:

I believe I have shown a great deal of evidence for the Young Earth, especially for rapid deposition of the strata,

What features would a geologic layer need in order to be inconsistent with rapid deposition in your model?

If you are going to claim that a layer was rapidly deposited no matter what features it has, then you have no evidence. You simply have dogma.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Faith, posted 09-24-2017 11:03 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 68 of 224 (820733)
09-25-2017 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
09-25-2017 1:46 AM


Re: an altrnative time frame
Faith writes:

NO, I ACTUALLY SEE IT, AND I'VE POINTED IT OUT ON MANY CROSS SECTIONS. I COULDN'T POSSIBLY JUST "DECIDE" TO SEE ANYTHING, I ACTUALLY SEE IT AND I'VE SHOWN THAT IT IS THERE, MANY MANY TIMES. I'VE INDICATED IT ON THE CROSS SECTIONS, CLEARLY SPELLED OUT WHAT I'M LOOKING AT AND CLEARLY EXPLAINED HOW THAT EVIDENCE POINTS TO MY CONCLUSIONS.

As we have already seen, there is no evidence that we could ever show you that would not point to your conclusion because your theory is not falsifiable. For example, we have this graph that shows settling rates for various grain sizes:


The smaller the grain size the slower it settles out. This is a physical law. There simply is not enough time for things like extremely fine grained slates and silts to settle out in a rapid fashion. It is physically impossible. Does that stop you from just blindingly going into a rage and claiming that these things can settle out quickly against all laws of physics? Nope, you blindly rage ahead and flatly claim that it supports your theory with absolutely no explanation as to how it actually supports your theory.

In the end, all you have is bluster.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 09-25-2017 1:46 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 85 of 224 (820793)
09-27-2017 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Faith
09-27-2017 3:20 PM


Re: The geologic "created kind"
Faith writes:

That's the basic part of my YEC Model. Nothing miraculous is necessary to it, just the unprecedented magnitude of the Flood itself, but if you put your mind to trying to account for what such a worldwide event might have done I think it can probably explain what is now taken for complex time-determined events that are partly complex because not seen as connected the way I see them.

1. What could this supposed global flood NOT do? What features would a geologic formation need in order to be inconsistent with your model?

2. What criteria do you use to determine if a geologic column was produced rapidly by a recent global flood?

3. What features would a geologic column or feature need in order to evidence long periods of deposition, according to your model?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 3:20 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 3:38 PM Taq has responded
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 4:30 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 88 of 224 (820798)
09-27-2017 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Faith
09-27-2017 3:38 PM


Re: The geologic "created kind"
Faith writes:

The straightness and flatness of the original (not tectonically deformed) strata and the tight contacts between many of them are evidence of rapid deposition.

We observe straight and flat deposits being made right now without any global flood without any rapid deposition. Your model has been falsified.

ENORMOUS amounts of distorting erosion between layers, that often cuts deeply into lower layers, the sort of thing that would have occurred during millions of years at the surface of the earth.

Here is the feature that falsifies your model:

Your model has been falsified twice now.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 3:38 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 4:31 PM Taq has responded
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 4:51 PM Taq has responded
 Message 113 by Faith, posted 09-28-2017 6:42 AM Taq has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 91 of 224 (820801)
09-27-2017 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
09-27-2017 4:30 PM


Re: OE assumptions
Faith writes:

Actually, the main thing is that there isn't a sane reason at all for there even to BE any strata to "evidence long periods of deposition." Why should there be ANY flat straight sedimentary rocks at all, let alone neatly stacked miles deepas we see for instance in the Grand Canyon?

Because that is what happens when sediments settle out of water, they produce flat sediments. The finer the particles the longer it takes to settle out.

We also have modern sand dunes that produce the exact features seen in features like the Coconino sandstones:


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 Message 89 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 4:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 92 of 224 (820802)
09-27-2017 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Faith
09-27-2017 4:31 PM


Re: The geologic "created kind"
Faith writes:

You do not see anything at all being deposited on the scale and in the form of the Stratigraphic Column.

70% of the Earth is currently seeing this type of deposition.

And your photo is pathetic compared to what should be seen of the erosion I'm talking about.

Why is it pathetic? Do you have more than just bluster?

The Stratigraphic Column is over and done with, there is no erosion consistent with millions of years of "time periods" and there shouldn't be a Stratigraphic Column AT ALL if the whole Geological Time Scale was true.

I just showed you a geologic formation that directly contradicts your claims. All you seem to have is denial.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 4:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 09-28-2017 6:40 AM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 98 of 224 (820811)
09-27-2017 5:16 PM
Reply to: Message 94 by Faith
09-27-2017 4:51 PM


Re: the evidence against the Geo Time Scale and for the Flood is overwhelming
Faith writes:

Also where there is tectonic deformation, with the one exception of angular unconformities, the strata are defomed in a whole block of them at once. Twisted, upended, buckled, whatever, always a block of them at once.

That's because they were a block of sediments prior to tectonic forces shaping them.

Deformation in blocks means ONE TECTONIC EVENT after all the strata in the block were already in place, and still malleable too, because still damp from the Flood that laid them down.

Why do they have to be damp in order to deform?

Added in edit:

You can also find fossils that are deformed by tectonic activity, such as fossil seashells.
http://www.tandfonline.com/...10.1080/00288306.1990.10425690

Unless you think seashells are made up of damp mud, you can't claim that rocks have to be mud in order to bend.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 09-27-2017 4:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 09-28-2017 6:07 AM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 125 of 224 (820870)
09-28-2017 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by Faith
09-28-2017 6:07 AM


Re: the evidence against the Geo Time Scale and for the Flood is overwhelming
Faith writes:

They aren't going to bend neatly as a block if they are completely lithified.

Why not?

That they do bend together as a unit is evidence that they were all malleable, all of the same age, not millions of years apart.

Lithified rock is malleable, so I don't see what the problem is. Also, why do they have to be of the same age? You don't explain this.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Faith, posted 09-28-2017 6:07 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 126 of 224 (820871)
09-28-2017 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
09-28-2017 6:25 AM


Re: the evidence against the Geo Time Scale and for the Flood is overwhelming
Faith writes:

There is no such thing as different layers all being deformed in different ways, but that is what one would expect would happen if each was laid down in a separate time frame millions of years from all the others and tectonically deformed in its own time frame.

Why would you expect that? You never seem to explain this.

Let's say we have a low lying basin filled with water. For millions of years there is sedimentation which produces multiple layers over millions of years. Once those many layers have formed there is a change in tectonic activity that uplifts and deforms those sediments which have now lithified. Due to the fact that they are uplifted they will no longer be part of a low lying basin and will no longer collect new sediments. This results in a single block of sediments that formed over millions of years that are all deformed together.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 09-28-2017 6:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 127 of 224 (820872)
09-28-2017 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
09-28-2017 6:40 AM


Re: The geologic "created kind"
Faith writes:

Not happening the way the Stratigraphic Column was built. It was not built in basins or at the bottom of the sea, the strata were laid out flat and horizontal, and that is not happening now.

Sediments are being laid down flat and horizontal on 70% of the Earth's surface right now. That is how water lays down sediments. Denying facts isn't helping your argument.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 09-28-2017 6:40 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 167 of 224 (820950)
09-29-2017 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Faith
09-29-2017 2:56 AM


Re: the Stratigraphic Column is NOT continuing
Faith writes:

The degree of flatness is clear to any sane person. The strata olf the Stratigraphic Column could not have been formed from motley sediments falling off a mountain onto a plain like the one in the picture, and to say it could just makes you one of the deceivers.

Where is the evidence to back this claim?


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 Message 158 by Faith, posted 09-29-2017 2:56 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 192 of 224 (821086)
10-02-2017 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
09-30-2017 6:25 AM


Re: Yes the Stratigraphic Column is OVER WITH
Faith writes:

It is clearly finished and I've shown why many times.

You have never SHOWN this. All you do is stomp your feet like a 1st grader and insist that no new sediments are being laid down.

Where do you think eroded sediments go? Do they float up into space?

I don't care whether Walther's Law can account for all the strata seen in the Grand Canyon and Grand Staircase, but I know the Flood accounts for all of it.

And now you are back to stomping your feet like a 1st grader. What next? Threaten to hold your breath?


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 Message 183 by Faith, posted 09-30-2017 6:25 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Taq
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Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 193 of 224 (821124)
10-02-2017 4:23 PM


River Deltas
Here is a picture of ongoing creation of sediments on top of the existing geologic column in the Mississippi river delta:

Here is a picture of the Ganges river delta that also has ongoing and massive creation of new sediments on top of the existing geologic column (light brown sediment just off of coast):

Here is the remnants of the Colorado river delta before those crazy Californians took all the water:

Here is the Selenga river delta in Asia:

How can anyone claim that new sediments are not being created on top of the existing geologic column right now in modern times? These are just a handful of the numerous river deltas that are producing sediments right now. In fact, they are a massive infrastructure problem for many ports because sediments have to continually dredged as they build up.


Replies to this message:
 Message 194 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2017 4:48 PM Taq has responded
 Message 198 by Minnemooseus, posted 10-03-2017 11:18 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 195 of 224 (821129)
10-02-2017 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 194 by RAZD
10-02-2017 4:48 PM


Re: River Deltas
RAZD writes:

what??? grain size decreasing with distance from mouth??? who woulda thunk that would happen.

That takes me back to a family trip where we visited the Mt. St. Helens visitor center. Being a kid who grew up in the 80's in the Pacific NW, no road trip was complete without checking the area out. In the visitor center they had a collection of jars with ash arranged by their distance from the eruption. Sure enough, as you moved away from the eruption the grains were smaller and smaller and smaller. Out of all the things I saw there, that is the one thing that stuck with me for some strange reason. It seems that my path as a scientist started at a young age.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 194 by RAZD, posted 10-02-2017 4:48 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8010
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 196 of 224 (821130)
10-02-2017 5:19 PM


Lahars
Speaking of Mt. St. Helens . . .

Lahars are another example of modern sediments. Not only is this deposition ongoing as volcanoes continue to erupt over time, but it creates flat sediments:

As you can see, nice flat deposition well off into the distance and a polystrate house too boot. This modern deposit is now part of the geologic column.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by Pressie, posted 10-04-2017 8:03 AM Taq has not yet responded
 Message 200 by NoNukes, posted 10-04-2017 1:16 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
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