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Author | Topic: The Sudden Dawn of the Cosmos and the Constancy of Physical Laws | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
PaulK Member Posts: 16672 Joined: Member Rating: 3.6 |
Really it depends on what you mean. There is the fact that things behave in particular ways. That "exists" so long as the things exist (but only in the sense it is true, I've seen some very silly arguments that get confused about that). Then there is the description which is a human creation.
But there's no reason to suppose that there is anything external making things behave that way.
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jar Member Posts: 33104 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
The property we call gravity is part of the universe itself. The "Law of Gravity" has changed many times in the past as we learn more about the property that we call gravity. But gravity is simply a property of this universe. There is no evidence that it was created or that it could exist separate from this universe itself.
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Phat Member Posts: 14863 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1 |
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)
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jar Member Posts: 33104 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Is Ganesha obviously ludicrous and Jesus not obviously ludicrous? Is Jesus obviously ludicrous and Ganesha not obviously ludicrous? Reality does not originate with humans but Gods, laws and wisdom do.
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PaulK Member Posts: 16672 Joined: Member Rating: 3.6 |
To repeat the point I made last time, it's the description that originated with humans - and I don't see why anyone would think otherwise.
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.5 |
If God works in mysterious ways, we have no way of understanding what He's doing. He could change the laws of physics at any time.
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Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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We don't. We trust them to remain constant because every time we get information suggesting if they were constant or not... that information suggests that, yes, they were constant. As long as that information stays that way, we will continue to trust such information. As soon as any information says otherwise, we will be become very, very interested in the how's and why's.
A very good start. Now, let's look at what we can to see if they ever changed or not. So, although the possibility of the Laws of Physics changing suggests we should not be confident in them never changing... the fact that we can verify that the Laws of Physics have never changed, and that we have no information that suggests otherwise... that is a good reason to assume that they'll never change. At least for now.
Well, apart from the fact that it hasn't done so ever before. In all of it's 14 000 000 000+ years. I don't know about you, but I'm sticking with the 14 000 000 000 years of not changing into an elephant.
Actually, if there is a Creator who established those Laws, this widens the possibility that such Laws may change.
Maybe. But that sounds a lot like Atlas. I don't believe in Atlas or Jesus Christ, because all the information we have doesn't seem to back them up, only a very small specific subset. I'd have to ignore too much in order to accept them as truth. However, all the information we have does seem to back up the idea of the constant Laws of Physics.
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Stile Member Posts: 4010 From: Ontario, Canada Joined:
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I agree with your idea here, I think.
I don't agree with that, though. The word nothing implies, well... nothing. Why can't something come from nothing?
We have identified causes for many things. In fact, whenever we look for a cause, we almost always find one. Since the very beginning of the universe only happened once, and only happened a very, very long time ago... perhaps our thoughts on what happens here and now (things like "something can't come from nothing") do not apply to what happened once, a very, very long time ago. Maybe. Maybe not. I can't say it does.
What's to say it's not going to?
Because it works. Maybe one day it won't. Maybe not. Until then, why not use what works?
I don't think He does. Interesting how God doesn't seem to be able to do any better than anyone else... maybe He isn't really a God.
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Phat Member Posts: 14863 From: Denver,Colorado USA Joined: Member Rating: 1.1
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Yellowstone could blow up, too. The chance of that happening is likely greater than the laws of Physics changing.
Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain " ~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)
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jar Member Posts: 33104 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 3.7
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There is a near certainty that there will be another Yellowstone Mega eruption. It almost certainly WILL happen since the evidence is that it is a recurring even that has happened many times in the past. A map of prior hotspots with numbers equal date of eruption in millions of years ago from History of Yellowstone Caldera.
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Taq Member Posts: 8453 Joined: Member Rating: 8.6
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When the orbit of Mercury violated Newton's Laws of Gravity we threw out Newton's Laws of Gravity, not the orbit of Mercury. In the end, laws are human models that attempt to describe how nature works. The things that appear to stay constant are turned into laws while the things that don't stay constant are not turned into laws. For example, the ambient temperature for any location on Earth is not constant so we don't describe it as a law. If there were no constants then we wouldn't have any laws, and we probably wouldn't exist to begin with.
We use the scientific method because it appears to work. If there were no constants then the scientific method wouldn't work and we wouldn't be able to make such stunningly accurate predictions as it relates to new experiments.
Except for all those promises that he hasn't kept, such as Jesus fulfilling all of the messianic prophecies and coming back like he promised.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 150 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
That actually happened. Yellowstone is one large caldera and the ash spread beyond the Mississippi. So yes, that could happen again. Enjoy by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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RAZD Member (Idle past 150 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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And when relativity explained the orbit of Mercury, that was validation that relativity was a better model than Newton's Law of Gravity.
We also have evidence for constants, such as Uranium Halos and the Okla Natural Reactors producing the same by-products as man-made reactors, and in the observed radioactive decay of isotopes in the light from supernova's like 1987a. If the laws of physics have changed then it is most likely that this occurred early in the life of the universe and that they have since decayed rapidly over time to the constants we see and observe. Enjoy Edited by RAZD, : . by our ability to understand Rebel☮American☆Zen☯Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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ringo Member Posts: 18854 From: frozen wasteland Joined: Member Rating: 3.5 |
What's your point? I said that if God works in mysterious ways, there's no way for us to tell when His ways will change. If God works in mysterious ways, "communion" with Him has no value because He might change His mind tomorrow.
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jar Member Posts: 33104 From: Texas!! Joined: Member Rating: 3.7 |
Or, like the God in Genesis 2&3 telling you only partial truths, setting you up to fail and lying to you as well.
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