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Author Topic:   The irresolvability of the creation/evolution debate
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 78 of 98 (492143)
12-28-2008 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by thief
12-28-2008 3:06 PM


Re: Greetings to you one and all Creation vs Evolution
Hi, Thief. Welcome to EvC, I guess.
thief writes:
I'm seeking a bit more feed back
If you’re interested in the thoughts of a young man with little real experience in either science or religion, let me provide you with my assessment as to why you’re not getting any feedback.
In a logical debate, it’s customary to present a full argument at the beginning. That way, all parties are able to participate in a discussion and frame their arguments in a productive manner.
In a way, you have done so. In Message 52, you claimed that you could harmonize Genesis and the Theory of Evolution.
Since that point, however, you have kind of rambled back and forth about what Moses would think about a round earth, and how people are not warmly welcoming you here. And, yet, you are asking for feedback.
Feedback on what? Moses demanding proof of a round earth? Or Genesis and the ToE? You've so far presented a handful of disjunct thoughts. I should think the insults to your sanity or clarity of thought would be the best feedback that could be offered given the circumstances.
Can you deliver on your original promise to harmonize Genesis and Evolution, or do you intend to continue jerking people around for another couple hundred posts before finally tying the ramblings back to the original claim?
The way you’re going, you come off as condescending. Everybody else has arguments that they would like the chance to present, as well, but your holding off on the presentation of your basic thesis in favor of slowly dragging your opponents through a ritualized sequence of questions that you’ve carefully crafted to reach the desired end that you’re not sharing with us, is robbing everybody else of their chance to actually participate in the discussion.
If all you want is for somebody to answer your question or provide the feedback you're predicting so that you can move on, why not just ask and answer them yourself, so we can read the whole sequence to see what the point of it is, and not waste the limited number of posts we get per thread waiting until our turn to present a rebuttal?

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by thief, posted 12-28-2008 3:06 PM thief has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 90 of 98 (492168)
12-29-2008 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by thief
12-28-2008 10:07 PM


Re: Give the poor lad a chance
Hi, Thief.
Since you disapprove of our already-existing DevilsAdvocate, let me try my hand at playing the part.
thief writes:
An argument favoring creationism cannot be supported out of Genesis.
I don't believe that you've actually shown this. Yes, you've certainly said it.
So far, the only thing you've proven (with help from a volunteer from the audience) was that the order of creation does not match with the order put forth by science.
But, this in no way says you can't make an argument favoring creationism from Genesis. If Genesis is all you're using, you certainly would make an argument favoring creationism.
-----
thief writes:
Imagination is the problem solving portion of the mind
In many cases, imagination is also the problem-causing portion of the mind.

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by thief, posted 12-28-2008 10:07 PM thief has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 95 of 98 (492308)
12-29-2008 11:14 PM
Reply to: Message 92 by thief
12-29-2008 6:25 PM


Re: Give the poor lad a chance
Hi, Thief.
I guess you're espousing a theistic evolution perspective. I'm a theistic evolutionist myself, but, as Lyx2no said so eloquently, I'm not particularly concerned with what the story ends up to be, so long as the story matches the evidence.
So, the proper way to approach the problem is to start with nothing but physical evidence, and formulate theories from there. As Lyx2no has also pointed out, this is where a standard creationist would disagree with me, and that's why the debate is unresolvable.
-----
thief writes:
Insert evolution on Day Six and Day Seven
So, what you're proposing is that God created whatever in the first few days, and then His creations evolved from that point.
You want science to exclude abiogenesis (life from raw materials) and adopt a form of baraminology, and, if they do so, everybody's happy.
Sounds okay to me, I guess. Except, in order to match up with the evidence, the "kinds" would have to be very primitive organisms, and not "cat," "fish" and "horse" kinds, as creationists generally want. They would have to be even more generic than "mollusc," "arthropod" and "chordate."
Furthermore, like most biologists, I see that the evidence for abiogenesis is mounting, and the evidence for universal common ancestry (all organisms from a single, one-celled ancestor) has been strong for a long time.

-Bluejay
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 92 by thief, posted 12-29-2008 6:25 PM thief has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by thief, posted 12-30-2008 8:02 PM Blue Jay has not replied

  
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