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Author Topic:   Gun Control III
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 3863
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.5


Message 737 of 765 (849691)
03-18-2019 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 736 by Tangle
03-18-2019 4:11 AM


Yes, of course, gun legislation needs to be more restrictive. IMO all nations should ban all guns for civilian use, including sport.

But there is a bigger problem.

Anti-democracy forces are on the rise in this world, again. Racism, bigotry, discrimination against all manner of "them" expressed in ways from subtle to openly violent are finding receptive supporting populations throughout what we used to consider the strong stable democracies around the world.

Global economic disruptions due to sever climate change will only get worse from here. The rise of the violent right will continue to grow. Our grandchildren will suffer like no other generations before.

The last time the world had to fight off this kind of fascism it cost us more than 80 million dead and, in today's money, $15 trillion. I fear this time the effort won't be so cheap or limited ... or successful.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by Tangle, posted 03-18-2019 4:11 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18374
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 738 of 765 (849694)
03-18-2019 8:58 AM
Reply to: Message 736 by Tangle
03-18-2019 4:11 AM


Tangle writes:

New Zealand Cabinet have agreed to change gun law and licencing. Detailed announcements next week expect to ban semi-automatic weapons and introduce a gun amnesty.

The gun people have already told us of the terrible consequences New Zealanders will suffer for making it more difficult for the public to have guns. Quoting from posts to this thread and to the Police Shootings thread:

quote:
The unintended consequences of that, and many other trade-offs, could result in more deaths than we have now.

quote:
...the mere presence of guns in a society can be a crime deterrent.

quote:
I could even add more categories, like...deaths in the hands of past governments who stripped it's citizens of their guns.

quote:
...when there are breakdowns in how guns are used, it makes it more clear that gun violence is a people problem, not a hardware problem.

quote:
... that was a problem, when criminals are assured that law abiding homeowners don't have guns to protect themselves.

quote:
Ban gun ownership and watch the homicide by gun rate skyrocket to unprecedented levels within the hour of its legislative passing.

quote:
I have my guns to keep someone from blowing my head off.

quote:
It's you "I am the LAW" type of inbred cousin humpers that give the rest of us law abiding gun owners a bad name.

quote:
...your fear of guns taints your judgment...

quote:
All I do know is that if you reach for a gun you're going to die.

quote:
Short of the uninvention of the gun, we're just going to have accept and deal with reality as it is, not as we wish it to be.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 736 by Tangle, posted 03-18-2019 4:11 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 739 by Tangle, posted 03-18-2019 9:39 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 739 of 765 (849696)
03-18-2019 9:39 AM
Reply to: Message 738 by Percy
03-18-2019 8:58 AM


Percy writes:

The gun people have already told us of the terrible consequences New Zealanders will suffer for making it more difficult for the public to have guns. Quoting from posts to this thread and to the Police Shootings thread

We have the experience is Australia to prove them wrong and shortly we'll have New Zealand. The gun nuts will still be in denial though.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 738 by Percy, posted 03-18-2019 8:58 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 945
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.2


Message 740 of 765 (849786)
03-21-2019 2:38 AM


Sanity and evil
What sane people do:

New Zealand will ban all types of semi-automatic weapons and assault rifles following the Christchurch attacks, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern has said.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-47648549

Causing evil people to lie:

National Rifle Association (NRA) spokeswoman Dana Loesch:

""The US isn't NZ," she tweeted. "While they do not have an inalienable right to bear arms and to self defense, we do."


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 741 of 765 (849788)
03-21-2019 3:19 AM


New Zealand banned semi-automatic weapons overnight. Ownership is now illegal. Buy-back scheme being introduced and a truck load of licencing on the cards. All fabulously sane.

https://www.theguardian.com/...ew-zealands-gun-laws-changing


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18374
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 742 of 765 (849792)
03-21-2019 6:40 AM


Musket/AR-15 Comparison
The musket was the weapon of choice when the 2nd Amendment was written. Here's a short one minute comparison of a musket with an AR-15:

Here's an entertaining comparison where they actually fire a musket and an AR-15. It's a little longer, 4 minutes, but worth it if you have the time. Be sure to watch the bloopers section at the end - those muskets had a lot of ways to go wrong and not fire.

Here is an AR15 being fired both with and without a bump stock (I've positioned the video at precisely the right point, you only have to watch about 15 seconds):

The writers of the 2nd amendment did not have modern firearms in mind. Maybe everyone *should* have the right to keep and bear musket loaders, but not modern weapons.

Looking at New Zealand, it's amazing how rational people can be about the dangers of firearms when they don't have the issue all confused in their minds with the possibility that some sacred right is being trampled.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 743 by Phat, posted 04-02-2019 1:02 AM Percy has responded

    
Phat
Member
Posts: 12254
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 743 of 765 (850131)
04-02-2019 1:02 AM
Reply to: Message 742 by Percy
03-21-2019 6:40 AM


Check this out

Comments?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 742 by Percy, posted 03-21-2019 6:40 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 744 by Percy, posted 04-02-2019 9:11 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 18374
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 744 of 765 (850159)
04-02-2019 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 743 by Phat
04-02-2019 1:02 AM


Re: Check this out
Phat writes:

Comments?

When the gun entered the auditorium I would have exited.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 743 by Phat, posted 04-02-2019 1:02 AM Phat has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18374
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 745 of 765 (850531)
04-10-2019 7:43 AM


Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
New Zealand passes law banning most semiautomatic weapons, less than a month after mosque massacres, reports the Washington Post.

When you don't have an archaic and anachronistic Second Amendment, behaving rationally is simple.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 746 by Tangle, posted 04-10-2019 10:51 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 747 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:16 PM Percy has responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6745
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 746 of 765 (850539)
04-10-2019 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 745 by Percy
04-10-2019 7:43 AM


Re: Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
...and only one MP voted against. Extraordinary.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 745 by Percy, posted 04-10-2019 7:43 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 747 of 765 (850557)
04-10-2019 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 745 by Percy
04-10-2019 7:43 AM


Re: Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
No American who speaks of any part of our Constitution as archaic and anachronistic deserves to be called rational or sane.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 745 by Percy, posted 04-10-2019 7:43 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 748 by ringo, posted 04-10-2019 2:31 PM Faith has responded
 Message 751 by Theodoric, posted 04-10-2019 3:13 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 752 by Percy, posted 04-10-2019 5:42 PM Faith has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 748 of 765 (850564)
04-10-2019 2:31 PM
Reply to: Message 747 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:16 PM


Re: Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
Faith writes:

No American who speaks of any part of our Constitution as archaic and anachronistic deserves to be called rational or sane.


Allowing only men to vote is archaic.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 747 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 749 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:38 PM ringo has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30962
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 749 of 765 (850566)
04-10-2019 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 748 by ringo
04-10-2019 2:31 PM


Re: Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
You have absolutely no respect for history.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 748 by ringo, posted 04-10-2019 2:31 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 750 by ringo, posted 04-10-2019 3:13 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16358
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 750 of 765 (850573)
04-10-2019 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 749 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:38 PM


Re: Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
Faith writes:

You have absolutely no respect for history.


You're the one who is ignoring history. The original Constitution denied women the right to vote. The 19th Amendment corrected that. Are you suggesting that the denying women the vote is not archaic?

I personally believe that even people as ignorant and hateful as you should be allowed to vote.


And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 749 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:38 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6040
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 751 of 765 (850574)
04-10-2019 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 747 by Faith
04-10-2019 2:16 PM


Re: Sanity Reigns in the Southern Hemisphere
Slavery as a legal institution is archaic. It is part of the US Constitution. Not allowing women and non property owners and non-whites to vote is archaic. Not directly electing Senators is archaic. Having the vice-President be the second place in the election for President is archaic. Allowing a Poll tax is archaic.

Need I continue?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 747 by Faith, posted 04-10-2019 2:16 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
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