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Author Topic:   R.C.Sprouls Teaching On Reformed Theology
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 117 of 175 (828077)
02-09-2018 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by ringo
02-09-2018 11:39 AM


Re: The Calvinists vs Joel Osteen
ringo writes:

The Church told people they'd go to Hell if they weren't good citizens. Today we can see that being good citizens can have a good effect here on earth.

The outcome is the same. We're just being good for our own sake instead of for the Church's sake and the government's sake.

But what is the definition of a global consensus?

Some would argue that a global consensus must involve answering the question that jesus asked peter: Who Do Men say tham I am? (...) Who do you say that I am?

Others would argue that the only consensus that is important is being good for our own sake.

Still others are always looking. Searching to solve the mystery.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by ringo, posted 02-09-2018 11:39 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:25 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 119 of 175 (838833)
08-29-2018 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 118 by ringo
02-10-2018 11:25 AM


Who Do You Say That I am?
ringo writes:

But who said anything about a global consensus?

Jesus asked Peter a question which could be said to be for all people everywhere.

Who do Men say that I am?

Peter is being asked to stand on his own and distance himself from the crowd. So ringo, who was Jesus? Is he more than another in a long line of teachers? Why or why not?

Granted the majority of the world did not have the opportunity to walk and talk with Jesus as Peter did. Some say that today's Christians should be genuine enough to walk with people as Jesus once did, but far too few Christians even measure up to the character of Jesus.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by ringo, posted 02-10-2018 11:25 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 08-29-2018 9:42 AM Phat has replied
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 12:49 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 121 of 175 (838836)
08-29-2018 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by jar
08-29-2018 9:42 AM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
so who do you say that the Jesus character was? And how does your answer compliment your understanding and belief in the Nicene Creed?

Will you conclude that Jesus was a fallible human and nothing more? Does the Creed conclude the same?

As you teach this as your informed opinion on the matter, do you feel good about what you are in fact teaching about Jesus?

Aside from the statement that Jesus was made man, does the Creed emphasize His failures and human characteristics?

Is there any particular reason that you have brought this up more than once?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 08-29-2018 9:42 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 08-29-2018 10:55 AM Phat has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


(1)
Message 125 of 175 (838885)
08-29-2018 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by ringo
08-29-2018 12:49 PM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
It's things that you say like this that cause me to dismiss your so-called plain reading of the text while having no concept of belief in the character described in the book except when it furthers your arguments.

As Faith says, the story plainly centered on Jesus asking Pilate what truth was and of Jesus asking Peter who Peter thought that He was. The story did not end with a failed Messiah...I don't even want to speculate on what demons inspire you to question the existence of Jesus, but hopefully, you inadvertently give Him spare change without knowing who you gave it to....you will pull out of this faux pax.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 12:49 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 2:33 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 128 of 175 (838918)
08-30-2018 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by ringo
08-29-2018 2:33 PM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
ringo writes:

... remember that without the text there would be no Jesus for you to believe in.

Some believe that Jesus was in the beginning with God...long before any books even existed. You are portraying Him simply as a character within a book. Lacking evidence, neither of us know for sure.

I maintain, however, that I can very much believe in Jesus without the book...I just would have had to find out about Him some other way.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by ringo, posted 08-29-2018 2:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by ringo, posted 08-30-2018 3:02 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 130 of 175 (838924)
08-30-2018 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by ringo
08-30-2018 3:02 PM


thRe: Who Do You Say That I am?
the same way the authors of the stories heard of Him.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by ringo, posted 08-30-2018 3:02 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 08-30-2018 3:39 PM Phat has replied
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 08-30-2018 5:08 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 133 of 175 (838948)
08-30-2018 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by ringo
08-30-2018 5:08 PM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
See? This is the whole reason that you never became a believer. Your entire mental thought process requires hard evidence before you even entertain the idea of belief. Since you have yet to find satisfactory evidence for a God or for Jesus being a living Spirit today, you resort to the only evidence you have...the book which describes it all (except for later added dogma) and you limit any possibility of belief by the common error of "putting God in a box" or book, as it were.

I have no counter argument to convince you otherwise, but I can see why your arguments are framed the way that they are.

Socialism without woo is worse than the gulag, I swear.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by ringo, posted 08-30-2018 5:08 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by jar, posted 08-31-2018 6:14 AM Phat has taken no action
 Message 135 by ringo, posted 08-31-2018 11:48 AM Phat has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 136 of 175 (840025)
09-22-2018 7:58 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by jar
08-30-2018 3:39 PM


Re: thRe: Who Do You Say That I am?
jar writes:

How could you hear about Jesus if it were not for the existence of the written stories AND the adoption and forced marketing of Christianity?

The same way that Saul encountered Jesus long after He died.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by jar, posted 08-30-2018 3:39 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 09-22-2018 8:53 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 138 of 175 (864124)
10-07-2019 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 46 by jar
12-05-2017 5:26 PM


Another Critic of Calvinism.

The only sense it would make to "throw God away" would be if you trusted that your destiny was based entirely on what you do. Which could in fact make you close to an atheist. Why is it you have never claimed to be one. This GOD you throw away....seems like the only thing that would keep you from being one.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by jar, posted 12-05-2017 5:26 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 8:46 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 139 of 175 (864125)
10-07-2019 8:26 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by jar
09-22-2018 8:53 AM


Revisiting This Topic
Dr.Sproul has passed on to the next level. His teachings are useful to a degree---I am not convinced that he and MacArthur, Piper, and Geisler were "snake oil salesmen". I also am not convinced that jar is right when he declares that nobody knows God (since they cannot objectively prove or explain it) and that Jesus was simply a great teacher and not the sacrificial Son defended by Biblical Christianity. The clincher for me is jar telling us to throw God away. I m quite convinced that this edict is WRONG. I for one believe that I have "met" God in that I did get saved at one point in my life. the fact that I can't explain it objectively is not a concern that threatens my belief paradigm. Quite simply I conclude that many of you really don't want God (as we describe Him) to exist. It may be true that you insist that you would be thrilled and quite open were you to receive adequate evidence, but at this point in time (in our debates and discussions) I don't see it. Also, note that I understand how atheists think better than I used to. You likely would ignore any and all "still small voices" and focus on external empirical evidence ALONE. This is where you and I differ.

So there we stand...separated by a chasm. You will use as your tools of persuasion basic logic, reason, and reality. You will attempt to frame the words of the modern Bible as something to be studied in light of the authors and not presupposing anything about whether or not GOD and Jesus are real--and whether or not Jesus can be known in this modern-day and age. Of course, none of you has experienced what I have experienced, just as I have never experienced what any of you have nor deciding on my beliefs through the lens of your studies as well (as experiences). I don't know much--and critics can indeed accuse (or at best suggest) that I am deceived through several psychological tricks common to us. I am not knowing to lie when I say that when I pray, I hear an inner unction. It is not always a confirmation of my wishes. It is not always "Yes". At its core, it is but a belief. For the sake of argument, we could label it as my subconscious. It means so much to me, however, that I will at a necessary point trust It. Even over sociological logic, reason, and consensus. That is my definition of a Believer, seen through the eyes of myself.

I also watched another YouTube presentation by a Theologian where he counters the reformed Theology of Calvinism...or at least modifies it.

Yes, I will still study those who profess to believe in God and in Jesus.

In fact, if you keep challenging me to throw Him away, I will keep urging you to pick Him up.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by jar, posted 09-22-2018 8:53 AM jar has seen this message

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 141 of 175 (864134)
10-07-2019 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by jar
10-07-2019 8:46 AM


Re: Another Critic of Calvinism.
So we are Christians because we claim to be Christians? Are you saying that God has no part in this process?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 8:46 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 142 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 9:31 AM Phat has taken no action

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 151 of 175 (864166)
10-07-2019 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Faith
10-07-2019 10:07 AM


Re: Another Critic of Calvinism.
Oh I'm sure a few agree with him, Faith! He irritates me, but he helps me understand my own beliefs...even if only by causing me to firmly disagree with him!
God has no greater part in determining a person's "Christianity" then if one is a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or Taoist or ...
Atheist? OK how about evil? or noble and good? Essentially you have unmasked your belief, jar. That it is we and in no part "He"...

Go ahead, ask me what the evidence shows! Because that jury is out. There is no solid evidence in support of your position.

I am going to have to go here:
What Is A True Christian?
Im reading the entire thread. Some good quotes from current active members:

ringo writes:

My opinion is that a true Christian is a follower of Christ, somebody who goes where He goes, does what He does...

which evolved into following the message rather than the messenger.
JonF writes:

f course, God wants us to study and interpret His word and His creation. If He wanted us to follow a list of actions by rote without thinking, He would have given us an explicit list. Yes, you might get your Biblical interpretation wrong but still follow Jesus and do what He said we had to do to be saved because our hearts tell us it's right not because it's a list on which you check off each item as you do it.

jar writes:

Phat, what does the evidence show?
You've been here for over a decade and been able to watch fundies debate atheists, agnostics and liberal Christians.
You have personally debated atheist, agnostic and liberal Christians.
Can you think of even a single instance when fundamental or Biblical Christians have even been able to support their assertions much less convert an atheist, agnostic or liberal Christian?
Could you really watch such a film without either breaking a rib laughing or throwing up?


And
How can anyone win a war against made up fantasy enemies?

(to jar)
So you dont believe in demons apart from what humans create? I can go with that...but not so much that we also create God. That is a threat to my faith. And unlike the atheist secular humanists, I can't live without that inner assurance. Granted I admit that we make the world that we create....to a degree. I believe that we are responsible...to a degree. But I don't ...I wont....throw God away. I cant. Also...as to my personal belief regarding demons? I can throw them away, but I have had experiences that cause me to think and believe that scripture is more than a simple human creation. Religion might be, but Jesus is larger than the book and GOD? I will agree with you (jar) that He is undefinable except what scripture shows us...and people have been trying to describe Him for years. So on that one, I agree with GDR. We see God through the lens of Jesus. What do you think, Faith?

Edited by Thugpreacha, : clarification


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Faith, posted 10-07-2019 10:07 AM Faith has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:16 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 156 of 175 (864175)
10-07-2019 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by jar
10-07-2019 3:16 PM


Re: Another Critic of Calvinism.
jar writes:

Noble, evil and good are all human constructs. Every person, every society decides what is evil, noble or good.

I can agree with that. What I don't agree with is that God is a human construct. Just because people don't agree on Who or What He is (and does) does not mean that we are collectively creating Him. Metaphorically, He confused our languages in Genesis 11 because He was aware that the people...as one...in unity...could achieve ANYTHING. And He knew that if we left GOD out, we would fail.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:16 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Phat, posted 10-07-2019 3:40 PM Phat has seen this message
 Message 158 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:43 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 157 of 175 (864178)
10-07-2019 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
10-07-2019 3:32 PM


The Internet Is A Modern Tower Of Babel
and another thing....we are again trying to become One without GOD. Its the next evolutionary step that y'all are waiting for....to throw Him away and remove the shackles of organized religion. I can agree that religion itself is unnecessary but again, I wont agree that Christianity is only about what one does and that one need not believe or have a relationship with God/Jesus.

And yes, I can see it coming! jar will again ask me for the umpteenth time how such a relationship is even possible.

Did it ever occur to you that you may have been taught incorrectly?

jars belief statement writes:

I do believe that Jesus is GOD but while he was here on earth He was fully man, human, just like you, just like me.

I think lots of folk misunderstand the term incarnate. They have, if they even really think about it at all, some idea of incarnate means "God in Human Form" as though it was some costume GOD put on so he could sneak around and spy on the humans.

That makes as little sense theologically IMHO as the idea that Jesus let himself be killed as some blood sacrifice.

Jesus was a teacher. The information we have all says that everything he did during his life was to teach people. If the message was as some have said, that his followers are saved and the bad guys are gonna get it, Jesus lives the wrong story. In that story when it came time to lay hands on Him He would have swung around, flapped open his oilskin slicker, drawn his trusty Ivory handled six-guns, mowed down the Clancy Brothers and rid out of town leaving behind one silver bullet and on the ears of the wind, a hearty "Hi-Ho Silver, Away".

But Jesus is not some Masked Man. The power of the Jesus saga is that He is human.

A God cannot be tempted, Jesus was. And Jesus resisted. And the message is "humans can resist evil".

A God cannot be threatened, Jesus was. And Jesus did not respond with more violence. And the message is "humans can try to find ways other than violence".

A God cannot die, Jesus did. And Jesus rose from the dead. And the message is "all humans will rise from the dead".

Jesus talked often with His Father. Was He schizophrenic? Can all of the other religions and beliefs make it to heaven? Absolutely. Should we throw God away? Nowhere does Jesus even hint at this heresy.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 10-07-2019 3:32 PM Phat has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by ringo, posted 10-07-2019 4:41 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15992
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 159 of 175 (864187)
10-07-2019 4:29 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by jar
10-07-2019 3:43 PM


Re: Another Critic of Calvinism.
jar writes:

In the story the God is worried that once they build the tower to the heavens "There goes the neighborhood."

How does your interpretation differ from what an apologist would say? Are you saying that " the God" was worried about Heaven becoming crowded? That's more silly than my explanation! God came down (to our level, maybe?) and declared:
Gen 11:1-9 writes:

And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for mortar.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
KJV

Note: The people imagined to do something all of their own accord in order to make a name for themselves.

What would be so wrong about that? And why do you assert that this "God character" felt threatened? Seems as if you imply that we humans could actually reach Heaven.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 3:43 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by jar, posted 10-07-2019 5:07 PM Phat has seen this message

  
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