R.C.Sprouls Teaching On Reformed Theology

jar writes: How could you hear about Jesus if it were not for the existence of the written stories AND the adoption and forced marketing of Christianity?

The same way that Saul encountered Jesus long after He died.

Phat writes: The same way that Saul encountered Jesus long after He died.

And how was that? Do you mean the original version of the story where it was just an voice or one of the later embellished versions?

Remember it was not the encounter that taught Saul about Jesus but rather other humans.

Acts 9 writes: 9 And Saul, yet breathing out threatenings and slaughter against the disciples of the Lord, went unto the high priest, 2 And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem. 3 And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: 4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? 5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks. 6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do. 7 And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man. 8 And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus. 9 And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink. 10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord. 11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth, 12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight. 13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem: 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name. 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel: 16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake. 17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. 19 And when he had received meat, he was strengthened. Then was Saul certain days with the disciples which were at Damascus.

How could that experience be duplicated today? Without the Bible where could you find Ananias? How is that story different than Mohammud's conversion?

The only sense it would make to "throw God away" would be if you trusted that your destiny was based entirely on what you do. Which could in fact make you close to an atheist. Why is it you have never claimed to be one. This GOD you throw away....seems like the only thing that would keep you from being one.

Dr.Sproul has passed on to the next level. His teachings are useful to a degree---I am not convinced that he and MacArthur, Piper, and Geisler were "snake oil salesmen". I also am not convinced that jar is right when he declares that nobody knows God (since they cannot objectively prove or explain it) and that Jesus was simply a great teacher and not the sacrificial Son defended by Biblical Christianity. The clincher for me is jar telling us to throw God away. I m quite convinced that this edict is WRONG. I for one believe that I have "met" God in that I did get saved at one point in my life. the fact that I can't explain it objectively is not a concern that threatens my belief paradigm. Quite simply I conclude that many of you really don't want God (as we describe Him) to exist. It may be true that you insist that you would be thrilled and quite open were you to receive adequate evidence, but at this point in time (in our debates and discussions) I don't see it. Also, note that I understand how atheists think better than I used to. You likely would ignore any and all "still small voices" and focus on external empirical evidence ALONE. This is where you and I differ.

So there we stand...separated by a chasm. You will use as your tools of persuasion basic logic, reason, and reality. You will attempt to frame the words of the modern Bible as something to be studied in light of the authors and not presupposing anything about whether or not GOD and Jesus are real--and whether or not Jesus can be known in this modern-day and age. Of course, none of you has experienced what I have experienced, just as I have never experienced what any of you have nor deciding on my beliefs through the lens of your studies as well (as experiences). I don't know much--and critics can indeed accuse (or at best suggest) that I am deceived through several psychological tricks common to us. I am not knowing to lie when I say that when I pray, I hear an inner unction. It is not always a confirmation of my wishes. It is not always "Yes". At its core, it is but a belief. For the sake of argument, we could label it as my subconscious. It means so much to me, however, that I will at a necessary point trust It. Even over sociological logic, reason, and consensus. That is my definition of a Believer, seen through the eyes of myself.

I also watched another YouTube presentation by a Theologian where he counters the reformed Theology of Calvinism...or at least modifies it.

Yes, I will still study those who profess to believe in God and in Jesus.

In fact, if you keep challenging me to throw Him away, I will keep urging you to pick Him up.

Phat writes: Which could in fact make you close to an atheist. Why is it you have never claimed to be one.

Because I am a Christian, raised in a Christian family, educated in a Christian school and a registered member of a recognized Christian sect.

It seems reality should be sufficient reason for me to not claim to be an atheist.

So we are Christians because we claim to be Christians? Are you saying that God has no part in this process?

Phat writes: So we are Christians because we claim to be Christians? Are you saying that God has no part in this process?

No, someone is a Christian if they belong to one of the Chapters of Club Christian or if the identify as a Christian.

God has no greater part in determining a person's "Christianity" then if one is a Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu or Taoist or ...

Or if they identify as a Christian? So Mormons and JWs are Christians according to you?

Yes. And Roman Catholics and Greek Orthodox and Russian Orthodox...

Can you name anyone who agrees with you about these things or are you a Lone Ranger?

Why wouldn't Mormons and JW's be christians? It is seemingly self evident that they are.

Or if they identify as a Christian? So Mormons and JWs are Christians according to you?

Anything that branches in any way from the christian tree, no matter how vile some other twig may find it, are all equally the fruits of the poisonous tree.

I have absolutely no idea if anyone agrees with me and absolutely no idea why that would even be relevant?

Faith writes: Or if they identify as a Christian?

quote:

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Matthew 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

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"Identifying as a Christian" is separate from being accepted by Christ. A bricklayer can identify as a mason without being accepted by any Masonic Lodge.

What's so funny about Faith's question is the she must at least have an idea that EVERY Mormon and EVERY JW and EVERY Roman Catholic and EVERY Eastern Orthodox and every other sect that claims Christianity would agree with me that they are Christian.

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin