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Author Topic:   R.C.Sprouls Teaching On Reformed Theology
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12980
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 166 of 175 (864215)
10-08-2019 5:49 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by Theodoric
10-07-2019 6:54 PM


Re: The Internet Is A Modern Tower Of Babel
Im not sure what "my religion" says, but I personally see Jesus as God's character.
He was and is the Creator of all seen and unseens way of interacting with the lifeforms on this dust speck which we are getting close to destroying.

And in case any of you are demanding that God fix what's broken, I believe that He already gave us the brains to do so. What we collectively lack is a sacrificial heart.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Theodoric, posted 10-07-2019 6:54 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2019 8:55 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 10-08-2019 11:38 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6662
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 167 of 175 (864219)
10-08-2019 8:55 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Thugpreacha
10-08-2019 5:49 AM


Re: The Internet Is A Modern Tower Of Babel
Im not sure what "my religion" says,

That seems like a huge problem. I would think you would know what your religion says. You are a christian correct? Trinitarian? You sure do not sound like a Unitarian. Maybe you should learn about your religion a little before your start proselytizing for it.

And in case any of you are demanding that God fix what's broken, I believe that He already gave us the brains to do so. What we collectively lack is a sacrificial heart.

Word salad.

Edited by Theodoric, : qs issue


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2019 5:49 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12980
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 168 of 175 (864222)
10-08-2019 11:05 AM
Reply to: Message 120 by jar
08-29-2018 9:42 AM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
jar writes:

...according to the testimony found in the Bible Jesus character was not much different than any other human of the period; he had a temper, could be abrupt, self-centered, unsure, remorseful, petulant, demanding, unreasonable and selfish.

Care to show me where each of these traits is directly attributed to the Jesus of scripture?

I know the first one. Had A Temper=overturning moneychangers tables in the Temple.
Abrupt? (so what? Is a God manifested man supposed to walk meekly like Ghandi???)
Self-Centered?
Unsure? (Im guessing it is when He asks His Father to take this cup from Him if possible)
Remorseful? Thank God! If you were running the show you would make us pay our debts, never forgive us, and have rules. But let us continue...
Petulant?
Demanding?
Unreasonable? (Selling all that I have would be unreasonable...so I think I get that one.)
Selfish? Come on now....


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by jar, posted 08-29-2018 9:42 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-08-2019 12:30 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 17408
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 169 of 175 (864223)
10-08-2019 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by Thugpreacha
10-08-2019 5:49 AM


Re: The Internet Is A Modern Tower Of Babel
Phat writes:

And in case any of you are demanding that God fix what's broken, I believe that He already gave us the brains to do so.


But He didn't give us permission to use our brains. Your theology requires parking our brains at the door and having faith in God to do things for us.

Phat writes:

What we collectively lack is a sacrificial heart.


Speak for yourself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2019 5:49 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2019 11:45 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6662
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 170 of 175 (864224)
10-08-2019 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by ringo
10-08-2019 11:38 AM


Re: The Internet Is A Modern Tower Of Babel
That line is one of the typical fundie get out of free cards for their meaningless arguments. No matter what we feel, do or believe individually, it doesn't matter because the amorphous collective holds everything back.
Classic fundie bullshit.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by ringo, posted 10-08-2019 11:38 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

    
jar
Member
Posts: 31468
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 171 of 175 (864225)
10-08-2019 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Thugpreacha
10-08-2019 11:05 AM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
Phat, we have been over every one of those examples countless times over the decade or so. I have to ask myself it there is any value in even responding to you?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2019 11:05 AM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2019 3:41 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12980
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 172 of 175 (864229)
10-08-2019 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by jar
12-06-2017 12:12 PM


Re: the God Calvinists create and market!
jar writes:

What Calvinists market is that God favors them only and specifically, that Jesus death as atonement is not for everyone but Calvinists only, that God chose Calvinist only.

Remember the L in TULIP; Limited Atonement. It is perhaps the most vile form of Christianity I can imagine and goes directly against what the Bible claims Jesus taught.

"Jesus died only for the elect. Though Jesus’ sacrifice was sufficient for all, it was not efficacious for all. Jesus only bore the sins of the elect."

Think back to the conversation about the War Lord and food.

Limited Atonement is worse than the example of the warlord. Compare the I in TULIP (Irresitable Grace) to the threat of starvation.

"When God calls his elect into salvation, they cannot resist. God offers to all people the gospel message. This is called the external call. But to the elect, God extends an internal call and it cannot be resisted. This call is by the Holy Spirit who works in the hearts and minds of the elect to bring them to repentance and regeneration whereby they willingly and freely come to God. "

Remember while the offer is to all it is only God that chooses the elect.

What Sproul markets, what all of Calvin markets, is simply the warlord god at his worst. The elect cannot even choose to starve but rather get force-fed at the whim of the warlord.

But that is simply the god Sproul and Calvin created and market. It has absolutely nothing to do with reality or the universe.

The issue that we are discussing at this point in time--October of 2019, is Christianity in a world of Logic, Reason, and Reality. You claim that Sproul is dishonest---chiefly because of the doctrine of election...which modern Biblical Christianity asserts to be God's choice and choosing. Now to be fair, I can understand the argument. I now see why you claim, in your belief statement, that a God who chooses only some is an evil God...but you need to look at Sproul's argument rather than simply dismiss everything he says as a conman pocketing peas. Both you and Theodoric think this way....and I still stand by my observation that I see you as an atheist in disguise. I could care less about what credentials you show me or what club you claim membership in.
The argument basically starts with a quote by Koestler.
Sprouls explanation writes:

As Arthur Kessler once said, "As long as chance rules God is an
Anachronism."
I believe this to be an understatement.
If chance rules God cannot be validated.
The 3 great religions of the
world all understand that God is the efficient, and sufficient cause of the
entire Universe, and all agree on that.

And what do you believe?

Reality says that everything will not happen at once or in one place. Therefore probability, chance, is an inherent factor in the universe.
As an aside, you accuse me of going over the same points that we discuss over ten years at EvC, but the reason I bring them up in an effort to understand them and to refute them based on what I believe. In essence, I disagree with the argument to throw God away. I disagree with the argument that God in all books is created by man. EvC is not a website solely devoted to the scientific method and objective evidence. We do have a Faith & Belief component. Feel free to ignore my arguments, but you won't shut me up by refusing to respond to me. I can have an argument with the archives alone if I have to.

AZ Paul calls us religious nutjobs, and if that is the label I will be forced to wear (due of course to my "willful ignorance" at the overwhelming evidence that reality shows us ) then I shall stand with my sister Faith (who is the only other person you won't ever shut up) until EvC votes overwhelmingly to dispose of us or if Percy pulls the plug. You, of course, have the right to remain silent. I asked you a simple question to support your idea of Jesus (as interpreted through your plain reading of the Bible) vs the Jesus who you claim is marketed by the rest of we poor ignorant souls.

And as for Theodoric---who at least admits he is an old grumpy atheist activist, I most certainly do not need to understand my religion the way you guys choose to repackage it and remarket it back to me as. At its basic core, Christianity is about belief in a living Spirit originating from One Creator of all seen and unseen and shown and shared to us on earth initially through His Son Jesus Christ.

You can attempt to redefine Christianity as a secular humanist program of feeding people and clothing them all you want but what you market is humanism. I won't argue that it's not also what Christianity should be.
I won't argue that what Jesus wants us to do is to obey His message and not grovel at His feet. But I also won't allow the message to throw God away and forget about who Jesus is to taint Christianity as I know it. You won't shut that up.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by jar, posted 12-06-2017 12:12 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by jar, posted 10-08-2019 3:36 PM Thugpreacha has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31468
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 173 of 175 (864230)
10-08-2019 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Thugpreacha
10-08-2019 3:28 PM


Re: the God Calvinists create and market!
Stop constantly lying about what I say and believe Phat.

Phat writes:

You can attempt to redefine Christianity as a secular humanist program of feeding people and clothing them all you want but what you market is humanism.

That is a total fabrication at best of anything I have said. I do not try to define Christianity.

Jesus said according to the Bible that we are charged to clothe the naked, feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, protect the weak, heal the sick and comfort the sorrowful.

You are fighting Jesus, not me.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2019 3:28 PM Thugpreacha has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Thugpreacha, posted 10-08-2019 3:43 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12980
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 174 of 175 (864232)
10-08-2019 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by jar
10-08-2019 12:30 PM


Re: Who Do You Say That I am?
jar writes:

Phat, we have been over every one of those examples countless times over the decade or so. I have to ask myself if there is any value in even responding to you?

Feel free to ignore me. But I won't let your explanation of what Christianity is be allowed to stand unchallenged. God, as I understand Him and believe Him to be, welcomes all who question or doubt His existence. He also likely has no problem with those who essentially throw Him away in the sense that He is of no bigger importance to their mind than any mythological character ever invented or discussed. The reason that I won't let go of jar thinking this way, however, is because he claims to be a Christian yet frames the whole idea of God and of the human character of a Jesus whom he even allows to be mythological within his own belief and then markets it. I simply react and challenge what he markets. Is it possible he is right? Sure. I respect him that much. But I won't simply agree with what evidence is currently being presented.
Will I ever change my mind? I ask any of you: Give me better evidence. Be observers of human nature and dig deeper.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by jar, posted 10-08-2019 12:30 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12980
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 175 of 175 (864233)
10-08-2019 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by jar
10-08-2019 3:36 PM


Re: the God Calvinists create and market!
jar writes:

You are fighting Jesus, not me.

I do fight Jesus sometimes. He always wins. Wouldnt that be simply amazing if he actually used an old curmudgeon like you to set me straight!

I do not try to define Christianity.
When you say to throw God away, you are knowingly or unknowingly defining Christianity. God might say to you "Please stop misrepresenting me".

Edited by Thugpreacha, : No reason given.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”
? R.C. Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by jar, posted 10-08-2019 3:36 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
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