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Author Topic:   Lignin in red algae supports the Genesis days chronology? What about birds?
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17179
Joined: 01-10-2003


Message 44 of 62 (827775)
02-01-2018 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by LamarkNewAge
01-31-2018 5:43 PM


Re: Birds, Reptiles, Frogs, and evolution with hybridization.
I guess I will be accused of ignoring this if I don’t reply even though it is worthless.

A slower rate of evolving hybrid infertility is hardly adequate, especially when the timescales are so large and the creatures involved anatomically diverse.

The Daily Mail article - hardly a reliable resource - is talking about evolution after the dinosaurs died out, so it is certainly not directly applicable. The more so since the rates would be expected to be more similar in species closer to the common ancestor.

quote:

It is good to get the important things right.

Then I hope you will start trying.

quote:

Scansoriopteryx is important.

And it is something that can't be ignored


Or maybe it is just an oddity of no great significance. The scientists who carried out the cladistic analysis you object to our more work into “getting it right” than Feduccia. And yet you seem determined to ignore their work.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2018 5:43 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2018 1:57 PM PaulK has replied
 Message 48 by caffeine, posted 02-01-2018 2:30 PM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17179
Joined: 01-10-2003


Message 46 of 62 (827806)
02-01-2018 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by LamarkNewAge
02-01-2018 1:57 PM


Re: Birds, Reptiles, Frogs, and evolution with hybridization.
quote:

Birds seem to be in the tens of millions of years presently then (since ten times longer time to loose ability to have viable offspring)?

So 20-40 million years, which is rather less time than your “gap”.

quote:

So birds would take much longer than the present - 10 times longer than mammals 2-4 million infertility time scale - birds rate to have a genetic reproductive barrier to hybrids having viable offspring?

So INSTEAD OF 20 MILLION YEARS (or whatever it is exactly on average today), more like 50 million years back in the time of the very first birds (and the first 50 million years after the naissance)?


That doesn’t follow. After all the main point is that crocodiles evolved slowly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2018 1:57 PM LamarkNewAge has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2018 7:14 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17179
Joined: 01-10-2003


Message 51 of 62 (827818)
02-02-2018 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by LamarkNewAge
02-01-2018 7:14 PM


Re: Birds, Reptiles, Frogs, and evolution with hybridization.
quote:

I wonder if you can imagine that Archaeopteryx could be able to reproduce with a creature it shared a common ancestor with back around 190 million years ago.

It’s easy to imagine things. Assuming that they are true when they are incredibly unlikely is another matter.

quote:

I still haven't found the exact time period for birds loosing the ability to have viable hybrids.

There isn’t an exact time (do you really think that an average of 2-4 million years for mammals is an “exact time” ?). But if you can multiply by 10 you already have an adequate estimate.

quote:

But the ability to have viable hybrids is a way to enable evolutionary events FROM OUTSIDE your own species GET SHARED by your own species. Call spreading the wealth (of rapid evolution) around.

That’s an assumption, and not one supported by the article. Since the article doesn’t claim that birds evolved incredibly rapidly over the period in question - the main point is that crocodiles evolved very slowly after the dinosaurs died it it doesn’t exactly seem relevant. (And is there any reason to think that crocodiles are any faster to lose the ability to hybridise ?)

quote:

No wonder birds would look more evolved than Dinosaurs. They were.

No wonder everyone thinks you are a loon. You are. That is a very silly statement.

quote:

The cladistics analysis will see birds as having more evolved features, while Dinosaurs look more archaic (except there will be fossils that complicate the picture like the one we keep talking about that Czerkas named). The relationship between the two (birds and one line of dinosaurs) clearly exists. But which one truly (and ultimately) comes from the older line?

Birds will appear more evolved than their ancestors (for obvious reasons). But that only applies to the ancestors and close relatives, not to other dinosaurs - especially those living later. However cladistic analysis clearly shows birds as descending from dinosaurs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2018 7:14 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
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