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Author Topic:   Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you!
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 4 of 214 (829597)
03-10-2018 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


Spiritual or mental rather than physical phenomenon
I don't believe there are extraterrestrial beings from outer space that fly spaceships around the universe, but I think they may be a "spiritual" phenomenon on the order of fallen angels or demons that can manifest such things for the purpose of deceiving humanity.

I got this basic idea from the UFO expert Jacques Vallee who has suggested something similar. Here's an article about him, Heretic Among Heretics: Jacques Vallee Interview

"The UFO Phenomenon exists. It has been with us throughout history. It is physical in nature and it remains unexplained in terms of contemporary science. It represents a level of consciousness that we have not yet recognized, and which is able to manipulate dimensions beyond time and space as we understand them." So much for anti-gravity-powered starships ferrying Big Brothers from outer space. Vallee thinks UFOs are likely "windows" to other dimensions manipulated by intelligent, often mischievous, always enigmatic beings we have yet to understand.

My take on it is biblically based, where angels or demons are presented as realities tht are normally invisible but that can appear in physical form, while Vallee's comes from some other angle, but referring to "beings" as the cause of the phenomena is what makes his views similar. I read a book of his in the early 90s in which he likens the UFO phenomena to all kinds of folklore or fairytale-like phenomena down the ages, suggesting that all these things have the same source in these "beings," who merely choose to manifest such things according to the level of human consciousness or cultural expectations of the time.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 10 of 214 (829633)
03-10-2018 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Coragyps
03-10-2018 2:14 PM


Sounds pretty demonic to me!

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 17 of 214 (864089)
10-06-2019 5:51 PM


UFO experience reported here
On another thread (Time Dilation, the Hubble Shift and God's Eternal Universe), Captcass in Message 161 mentions an experience he had supposedly with a UFO:

I had a long, 2 hour, experience with one about 300' in diameter that came within 1/4 mile when I was 16. It maneuvered in physically impossible fashions. It made Newsday the next day as so many people in Patchogue, a town to the east of where I was, saw it.
No one on this planet could possible keep such technology a secret. Too many people would be involved.

Even if nobody wants to discuss it I thought it should be posted here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 18 of 214 (864091)
10-06-2019 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


Demonic manifestations
Before there was such a thing as planes people saw angels. After planes were a thing then reports of angels declined and reports of UFOs increased, finally booming with the beginning of the space race. People will always see strange inexplicable things that they interpret in terms of something familiar. I can't explain visual sightings confirmed by radar, but of this I'm sure: there are no alien spacecraft, and no country on Earth has achieved a major breakthrough in flight technology of this nature.

Anyone care to predict who might pipe up in this thread supporting UFOs?

Me, of course, who else would be so nutty? And I DID "pipe up" on this thread at the time too, in Message 10.

As I mentioned in my post above, the UFOlogist Jacques Vallee gave what I considered to be a credible way of accounting for such phenomena since the aliens idea wasn't credible to me. And still isn't. This has nothing to do with technology at all. Vallee considers these to be physical phenomena but since his basic description links it all to "spiritual" phenomena reported by the human race for millennia, I put all that together with the biblical accounts of demons and explain it as demonic manifestations in physical form. Percy sees these various manifestations as mere interpretations by the people who saw them, but Vallee takes the descriptions seriously as actually how they objectively appeared, meaning that the "beings" he attributes them to are capable of appearing in these different forms and it was the beings themselves who choose how they want to appear in the cultural framework of the time.

Captcass says the UFO he saw maneuvered in a way that defies all normal physical explanations, and that's what Vallee says is true for all the reports he studied.

SOME kind of phenomenon describable in such terms is witnessed by so many people that alone IMO should give it some credibility but no, those who have never witnessed any such thing persist in discounting everybody else's perceptions as delusional. Percy's OP is about how our military keep running into these UFO things. And there are hundreds of personal accounts we can add to this. It's only human arrogance that refuses to give any credence to the experiences of others. Oh certainly there can be mistaken perceptions as Percy reports of his own experience, but not ALL of them can be mistaken. A two-hour encounter such as Captcass reports would be an unlikely mistake or hallucination. Whatever he saw it had a reality that ought to be acknowledged IMHO.

Yep, demons. The Bible reports demons. I don't know if there are any other kinds of spiritual entities but demons are certainly real.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 20 of 214 (864102)
10-06-2019 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 9:06 PM


Snarky creed
Well, if that's intended to represent my beliefs, nope, but since it appears you wrote it all yourself I'm impressed. You're a poet. A snarky satirist of a poet, but a poet.

I haven't read any of the stuff about the Greys and all that, just seen them referenced here and there. Demons could manifest that way as well as fairies and leprechauns, and certainly they've made themselves into all the pagan "gods" of the whole world, so they'd have no problem being Greys or ET or whatever.

One of them that had apparently possessed a homeless man who probably had picked it up in Vietnam, threatened me in my room one night during the years I was reading my way to Christ. It was the spittin image of the homeless man who had threatened me on the street sometime earlier, I think that very day, holding up the sharp jaggen edges of the wine bottle he'd broken to serve as a weapon. I mentioned the experience in my favorite coffee house but they defended him cuz he was a Vietnam vet and he never threatened them. Why me? My guess is that the demon recognized the Holy Spirit who had come to possess me by then. Anyway the apparition of this man appeared in my room and said he was going to kill me. He looked exactly like the man, wore the same clothes. I spoke a line a friend of mine gave me for dealing with such experiences, though she was in a Christianized cult rather than a real Christian church, and the apparition went "poof" and disappeared, leaving the hair on the back of my neck standing up.

Demons are real. We don't worship them, we don't make creeds to them. Since the sixties I suspect we've been flooded with millions of them.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 22 of 214 (864105)
10-06-2019 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 9:32 PM


Tis true as you said, you have very effective insults.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 28 of 214 (864121)
10-07-2019 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tanypteryx
10-06-2019 10:06 PM


The balloons accounted for 2 UFO sightings in our area.

There is not a single documented shred of physical evidence of alien visitation. The U.S. government couldn't keep contact a secret any better than they keep any other secrets. Does anyone believe Trump could keep his mouth shut about that?

Plenty of hoaxes no doubt. And of course there's no physical evidence. Cuz the things aren't physical.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 30 of 214 (864133)
10-07-2019 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Hyroglyphx
10-07-2019 12:23 AM


Nope these are not physical UFOs, they are "spiritual" beings
So I read the post and watched the whole video. It all convinces me even more of Jacques Vallee's analysis, as I interpret it biblically. These phenomena are NOT high tech physical objects. They do not behave like anything in the physical universe. They move at speeds that would destroy a physical craft of any sort, they change direction without slowing down, they do "acrobatic" movements that no physical object could do.

Jacques Vallee* studied all kinds of strange manifestations described down through history and across cultures wherever he found references to them, and observed that they all behave in the same strange way, in defiance of the laws of physics. He concluded that they are intelligent beings, and that they are the same in every era, changing form in keeping with the cultural expectations of the time and place. They are carriages before cars came along, for instance, they are fairies and whatever other strange beings other cultures describe, they are UFOs, spaceships, in the age of aircraft, and they seem to get more sophisticated as our own technology gets more sophisticated. Obviously they can take the form of physical objects, human beings, all kinds of things in the physical world, without having to follow the laws of physics.

The guys in the film who witnessed the strange antics of these "aircraft" say they have no idea what they were, but at the time they were afraid of them as if they might be hostile forces with such superior technology ours couldn't stand a chance against them.

In our time and place what else could they think but that they demonstrate a physical technology? Our bias is against anything spiritual, such as angels and demons. You all will believe it's high tech no matter how it violates natural laws to the complete exclusion of Vallee's theory that they are living beings. Vallee does not have a biblical perspective but his analysis fits the biblical perspective that they are fallen angels or demons. And they must be laughing their demonic little heads off at how easy it is to deceive God's favorite creation, the human race. They can do the most absurd antics and we'll attribute them to some kind of unknown physical technology, that's how stupid the human race is. Al the demons want to do is deceive us. That's what they've done since Eden when Satan brought about the Fall. His demon hordes set themselves up in every human setting to be their "gods." They could even get away with requiring their human worshippers to kill their own babies in brutal ways as sacrifice to them.

There is no such thing as aliens from other parts of the physical universe. These are demonic beings trying to set us up to accept their rulership again despite the fact that Jesus defeated them at the cross. They know they can do this until He comes again, after which it will be all over for them. Meanwhile what a good job they do of making us think they are something other than what they are.

Vallee was a pretty respected UFO expert. I wonder why his stuff isn't more accepted? It's ludicrous to think of the US government treating these creatures as enemies with scary technology and getting witnesses to sign nondisclosure agreements. All you have to do is tell them Jesus has defeated their sorry little selves and leave us alone and they have to obey. Oh they CAN do damage though, I wouldn't want to minimize that, and as it says in scripture if they consider you to be pretending they aren't going to obey you. "Jesus I know, and Paul I know but WHO are YOU?" They can beat you up and throw you around, maybe worse for all I know, but they are just demons, they aren't aliens from other planets.

===============
*Vallee has written a number of books on this subject. HERE's ONE.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 32 of 214 (864172)
10-07-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 10:56 PM


But muse to a snarky parody of a Christian Creed?

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 34 of 214 (864184)
10-07-2019 4:01 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by AZPaul3
10-07-2019 3:51 PM


……………….

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 35 of 214 (864216)
10-08-2019 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by AZPaul3
10-07-2019 3:51 PM


Moronic muse
Pens the death of a delicate ecosystem.
Too Late is a very long time.
You are a fool, M'lady M'love
Not even a teary abyss
But a stunned silence.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 37 of 214 (864241)
10-09-2019 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Phat
10-08-2019 8:30 PM


Re: In The Muse
Is EvC a bombed-out city, Thugs?
Or concrete desert where a flower strains
Through tiny cracks to find the light that hugs
And blesses it for all its struggling pains?

Though threatened now by careless scuffling feet,
Can it survive its newfound happiness
For long, while busy people pass its sweet
Presumption in their blinded willfulness?

I hurry like those feet, which makes my thought
Insipid as I rush to get it said
That one did come along who saw and caught
Its cheeky color eer it broke and bled

You praised the bloom and saved its little life
From climate change and other local strife.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 39 of 214 (864253)
10-09-2019 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by 1.61803
10-09-2019 10:22 AM


Re: X files Haiku
Iambic feet keep marching through my brain
I ask them not to torment but they do;
They even have the gall to build quatrains
From nothing more than sloppy mental goo.

Maybe they are aliens

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(2)
Message 40 of 214 (864259)
10-09-2019 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 38 by 1.61803
10-09-2019 10:22 AM


Re: X files Haiku
We've gone off topic,
Left the ETs in their clouds.
We need a new thread.

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Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 386 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 41 of 214 (864290)
10-09-2019 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by AZPaul3
10-07-2019 3:51 PM


///////////////////////

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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