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Author Topic:   Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you!
Diomedes
Member
Posts: 909
From: Central Florida, USA
Joined: 09-13-2013
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 16 of 112 (829697)
03-12-2018 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
03-12-2018 10:30 AM


Re: Remember the Gaither Report and the Missile Gap?
I remember when I was a teenager, I used to love reading materials on UFOs along with crypto zoology. Was a big fan of the Leonard Nimoy show In Search Of.

As I grew older, I realized how many of these 'sightings' and associated material were heavily biased to give the impression of something fantastic. When in fact, the actual evidence was far more terrestrial in nature.

The real stupidity comes from some of the crazy claims about things like the Tolima 'fighter jets' or Ezekiel's Wheel. Whether or not other sightings have any veracity to them is suspect to me. Eye-witness reports are often quite unreliable.

By the way, for anyone that might be interested, there is a great video on Youtube that debunks that moronic show 'Ancient Aliens'. Link is here:


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Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 17 of 112 (864089)
10-06-2019 5:51 PM


UFO experience reported here
On another thread (Time Dilation, the Hubble Shift and God's Eternal Universe), Captcass in Message 161 mentions an experience he had supposedly with a UFO:

I had a long, 2 hour, experience with one about 300' in diameter that came within 1/4 mile when I was 16. It maneuvered in physically impossible fashions. It made Newsday the next day as so many people in Patchogue, a town to the east of where I was, saw it.
No one on this planet could possible keep such technology a secret. Too many people would be involved.

Even if nobody wants to discuss it I thought it should be posted here.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


    
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 18 of 112 (864091)
10-06-2019 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-10-2018 7:54 AM


Demonic manifestations
Before there was such a thing as planes people saw angels. After planes were a thing then reports of angels declined and reports of UFOs increased, finally booming with the beginning of the space race. People will always see strange inexplicable things that they interpret in terms of something familiar. I can't explain visual sightings confirmed by radar, but of this I'm sure: there are no alien spacecraft, and no country on Earth has achieved a major breakthrough in flight technology of this nature.

Anyone care to predict who might pipe up in this thread supporting UFOs?

Me, of course, who else would be so nutty? And I DID "pipe up" on this thread at the time too, in Message 10.

As I mentioned in my post above, the UFOlogist Jacques Vallee gave what I considered to be a credible way of accounting for such phenomena since the aliens idea wasn't credible to me. And still isn't. This has nothing to do with technology at all. Vallee considers these to be physical phenomena but since his basic description links it all to "spiritual" phenomena reported by the human race for millennia, I put all that together with the biblical accounts of demons and explain it as demonic manifestations in physical form. Percy sees these various manifestations as mere interpretations by the people who saw them, but Vallee takes the descriptions seriously as actually how they objectively appeared, meaning that the "beings" he attributes them to are capable of appearing in these different forms and it was the beings themselves who choose how they want to appear in the cultural framework of the time.

Captcass says the UFO he saw maneuvered in a way that defies all normal physical explanations, and that's what Vallee says is true for all the reports he studied.

SOME kind of phenomenon describable in such terms is witnessed by so many people that alone IMO should give it some credibility but no, those who have never witnessed any such thing persist in discounting everybody else's perceptions as delusional. Percy's OP is about how our military keep running into these UFO things. And there are hundreds of personal accounts we can add to this. It's only human arrogance that refuses to give any credence to the experiences of others. Oh certainly there can be mistaken perceptions as Percy reports of his own experience, but not ALL of them can be mistaken. A two-hour encounter such as Captcass reports would be an unlikely mistake or hallucination. Whatever he saw it had a reality that ought to be acknowledged IMHO.

Yep, demons. The Bible reports demons. I don't know if there are any other kinds of spiritual entities but demons are certainly real.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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 Message 1 by Percy, posted 03-10-2018 7:54 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

    
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4630
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(2)
Message 19 of 112 (864101)
10-06-2019 9:06 PM


I believe in aliens, the demons of the sky,
Flyers of space and time.
I believe in worm holes, warp drives and star ships,
Conceived of Einstein, Alcubierre and Roddenberry.
Devils born of foreign worlds,
After lightyears of travel brought to Earth,
With cargo holds of anal probes.
Suffered to silence by governments,
Was ridiculed, captured and confined,
Descended behind bars at Groom Lake.
To be freed by believers and by abductees returned,
To be seated at the right hand of tin hats,
To come again to rule in Roswell.
I believe in the Greys,
The almond eyes,
The physical phenomena,
The spiritual phenomena,
The resurrection of the meme,
And the human arrogance that refuses to give any credence to the experiences of Nutters.

R’amen


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 10-06-2019 9:12 PM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 38 by 1.61803, posted 10-09-2019 10:22 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 20 of 112 (864102)
10-06-2019 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 9:06 PM


Snarky creed
Well, if that's intended to represent my beliefs, nope, but since it appears you wrote it all yourself I'm impressed. You're a poet. A snarky satirist of a poet, but a poet.

I haven't read any of the stuff about the Greys and all that, just seen them referenced here and there. Demons could manifest that way as well as fairies and leprechauns, and certainly they've made themselves into all the pagan "gods" of the whole world, so they'd have no problem being Greys or ET or whatever.

One of them that had apparently possessed a homeless man who probably had picked it up in Vietnam, threatened me in my room one night during the years I was reading my way to Christ. It was the spittin image of the homeless man who had threatened me on the street sometime earlier, I think that very day, holding up the sharp jaggen edges of the wine bottle he'd broken to serve as a weapon. I mentioned the experience in my favorite coffee house but they defended him cuz he was a Vietnam vet and he never threatened them. Why me? My guess is that the demon recognized the Holy Spirit who had come to possess me by then. Anyway the apparition of this man appeared in my room and said he was going to kill me. He looked exactly like the man, wore the same clothes. I spoke a line a friend of mine gave me for dealing with such experiences, though she was in a Christianized cult rather than a real Christian church, and the apparition went "poof" and disappeared, leaving the hair on the back of my neck standing up.

Demons are real. We don't worship them, we don't make creeds to them. Since the sixties I suspect we've been flooded with millions of them.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4630
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 21 of 112 (864104)
10-06-2019 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Faith
10-06-2019 9:12 PM


You are my muse.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Faith, posted 10-06-2019 9:12 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 10-06-2019 9:56 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 22 of 112 (864105)
10-06-2019 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by AZPaul3
10-06-2019 9:32 PM


Tis true as you said, you have very effective insults.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by AZPaul3, posted 10-06-2019 9:32 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2322
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 7.2


(2)
Message 23 of 112 (864106)
10-06-2019 10:06 PM


In the early 60s three high school friends and I were into model rocketry. We built several multi stage rockets that had payloads of explosive chemicals, usually Potassium chlorate, powdered sugar, gun powder and magnesium dust. These were all chemicals that we (kids) could buy at the drug store.

We launched these rockets at night in the summer and they lit up the sky briefly when they exploded.

We also bought surplus weather balloons that we filled with Hydrogen and connected together with fine wire. soda straws on the wire maintained the spacing and formation. We spay painted them silver and hung road flares about 10 feet below each balloon.

The balloons accounted for 2 UFO sightings in our area.

There is not a single documented shred of physical evidence of alien visitation. The U.S. government couldn't keep contact a secret any better than they keep any other secrets. Does anyone believe Trump could keep his mouth shut about that?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4630
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 24 of 112 (864110)
10-06-2019 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
10-06-2019 9:56 PM


Too sensitive, Love.

Being a muse is not an insult but an expression of affection.

Or, it used to be in a world long gone by.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 10-06-2019 9:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 25 of 112 (864111)
10-06-2019 11:43 PM


Delta Sierra Juliet (hint: ufo military transcript or YouTube the MILITARY audio
Go for it!

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LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1558
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 26 of 112 (864112)
10-07-2019 12:04 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by LamarkNewAge
10-06-2019 11:43 PM


Re: Delta Sierra Juliet (hint: ufo military transcript or YouTube the MILITARY audio
Wow, I just put "Delta Sierra Juliet" into google and everything was devoted to this UFO story (non military incident however, my memory was bad there).

The skeptics light up the pages, but search long enough (I found it on google page 2) to find Leslie Kean's book and see GOOGLE BOOKS and start on page 56. You will find stuff the skeptics don't cover starting around page 57.

I don't know what to make of it all but Ken Hansen (driving on that 1978 night) and his two nieces, of Apollo Bay, Australia, saw the greenish circular light "like it was riding on top of the airplane". It caused them to get out of their car. There were 20 eyewitnesses from that night. UFO reports from Hansen and others who knew nothing of the DELTA SIERRA JULIET transcript or audio.

Be skeptical of the skeptics.

EDIT skeptics are skeptical of skeptics (like Nickell & McGaha PLUS cover the Hansen witness)

https://shardsofmagonia.wordpress.com/...earance-case-closed

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5826
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 27 of 112 (864113)
10-07-2019 12:23 AM


UFO
So, I have never been a UFO guy whatsoever, that Ancient Aliens show drives me insane, and in general I've been extremely skeptical if not totally bored with the topic. Having prefaced it with that, I did see something back in late 2010 that I simply could not rationalize.

I was stationed on the USCGC Tahoma located at the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard in Kittery, ME (or Portsmouth, NH depending on who you talk you). We were steaming down for operations in the Caribbean but had a scheduled refuel/resupply at Naval Air Station Jacksonville (Florida).

While underway and not focusing on law enforcement operations, my job was to plot the ship's course, so I spent a lot of time on the bridge. Earlier in the day we were running various drills. Its customary during the day to fly something called "day shapes," internationally recognized signal flags and shapes which communicates non-verbally to other ships what you are doing. Long after the drills were complete, my OPS boss realized we were still flying the shapes at night and tasked me with securing them.

Because they are running super intense radar, capable of frying your nuts, its a good idea to contact the radarmen to momentarily secure radar. Once that's done I go up to the O-3 deck which is the tallest point aside from the mast. I secured the day shapes in their locker.

Meanwhile, it is pitch black, as we were about 7 miles off the central coast of Georgia. This is a kind of darkness foreign to any city dwellers. Even the moonlight was scant. So dark you could barely make out the water line. Just as I'm getting ready to walk back down the ladder well, off to the Port side, I see a bright, yellow-orangish orb. My heart sinks because what it looks like to me is the mast light on a sailing vessel. Based on the size of the orb, which is kind of dancing around, it seems way too close and a collision seems inevitable. And because I'm on the ocean, which is pitching and rolling, it looks like this thing is pitching and rolling counter to me. All seems normal when it comes to physics.

It quickly becomes apparent, however, that this thing starts doing loops, figure-eight patterns, is shooting up in the sky at a tremendous speed, shooting down, zigzag patterns, moving in no discernible pattern and is moving with the agility of dragonfly. It would go from a complete hover to an insane acrobatic maneuver in fractions of a second.

Meanwhile, we are steaming south at about 15-20 knots. So while it is performing these acrobatic maneuvers it is also clearly pacing the linear movement of the ship. I could not move an inch. I stared intently at this thing for about a minute straight. Whatever it was clearly was cognizant of the ship's existence, clearly demonstrated an intent to monitor it, before it whizzed off east at speeds I couldn't begin to calculate, as my eyes strained to see it as it disappeared.

Because my backdrop was so dark, I had no frame of reference to determine if it was a large object far away or a small object close up. But my best guess was that it was fairly small, maybe the diameter of a small car, and was only about 150 feet from me. It made no sound whatsoever. There was nothing trailing it, like a rotor wash or jet wash, no beam of light connected to the orb. It was just a silent orb dancing erratically at speeds and made turns that defies both physics and logic.

So after standing there for a few more minutes trying to collect my thoughts, I finally went down. The first thing I did was looked for the lookout... even with modern technology like radar, there's always a physical lookout... naturally, he was on the starboard side. Great.

I asked the other people on the bridge if they had seen anything. Everyone was engaged in conversation and no one seemed alarmed. I was clearly the only dickhead who saw something... so what do you think would happen if I told my story right then and there? Yeah, I'd be mocked and ridiculed... and I couldn't blame them, because the first thing I would have done was try to rationalize it. I couldn't think for the remainder of my watch. I kept finding myself looking out the windows for any glimpse of it again.

All I can tell you is that the agility of this thing, based on conventional wisdom, is that its impossible. Because conventional wisdom would tell you that the G-forces at those speeds during those turns would have torn it to shreds. But clearly that wasn't the case. This was either late November or early December of 2010. I've never seen anything like that before or since. I can't tell you what it was and honestly its pointless to speculate. Obviously the mind wanders to two possibilities... either some insane, top secret craft that some government is testing or some kind of extra-terrestrial craft. The only thing I can certify was that it was unidentified, it was flying, and it was an object.

I had only told my wife this story up until about 5 months ago until I saw this. And it was only after seeing this that I felt more validated. The erratic movements featured at 15:50 was pretty demonstrable to the orb that I saw, but at night, and obviously the graphics can't compare to the real life speed and agility.

I'm not an "aliens" guy... In terms of probability, given the size of the universe, it seems completely conceivable that life is possible outside of our galaxy. But that there would two civilizations simultaneously capable of about the same technology finding one another seems more remote. But what else can I deduce? I don't even have a starting point in which to rationalize it. It literally must be something like these uncontacted tribes seeing a helicopter for the first time. They see it, obviously, but how could they be tasked to explain what they actually saw? It made me feel primitive... and completely vulnerable.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
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Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 28 of 112 (864121)
10-07-2019 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tanypteryx
10-06-2019 10:06 PM


The balloons accounted for 2 UFO sightings in our area.

There is not a single documented shred of physical evidence of alien visitation. The U.S. government couldn't keep contact a secret any better than they keep any other secrets. Does anyone believe Trump could keep his mouth shut about that?

Plenty of hoaxes no doubt. And of course there's no physical evidence. Cuz the things aren't physical.


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jar
Member
Posts: 31455
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 29 of 112 (864132)
10-07-2019 8:51 AM


I believe in miracles
Where you from
You sexy thing, sexy thing you
I believe in miracles
Since you came along
You sexy thing

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33255
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 30 of 112 (864133)
10-07-2019 9:14 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Hyroglyphx
10-07-2019 12:23 AM


Nope these are not physical UFOs, they are "spiritual" beings
So I read the post and watched the whole video. It all convinces me even more of Jacques Vallee's analysis, as I interpret it biblically. These phenomena are NOT high tech physical objects. They do not behave like anything in the physical universe. They move at speeds that would destroy a physical craft of any sort, they change direction without slowing down, they do "acrobatic" movements that no physical object could do.

Jacques Vallee* studied all kinds of strange manifestations described down through history and across cultures wherever he found references to them, and observed that they all behave in the same strange way, in defiance of the laws of physics. He concluded that they are intelligent beings, and that they are the same in every era, changing form in keeping with the cultural expectations of the time and place. They are carriages before cars came along, for instance, they are fairies and whatever other strange beings other cultures describe, they are UFOs, spaceships, in the age of aircraft, and they seem to get more sophisticated as our own technology gets more sophisticated. Obviously they can take the form of physical objects, human beings, all kinds of things in the physical world, without having to follow the laws of physics.

The guys in the film who witnessed the strange antics of these "aircraft" say they have no idea what they were, but at the time they were afraid of them as if they might be hostile forces with such superior technology ours couldn't stand a chance against them.

In our time and place what else could they think but that they demonstrate a physical technology? Our bias is against anything spiritual, such as angels and demons. You all will believe it's high tech no matter how it violates natural laws to the complete exclusion of Vallee's theory that they are living beings. Vallee does not have a biblical perspective but his analysis fits the biblical perspective that they are fallen angels or demons. And they must be laughing their demonic little heads off at how easy it is to deceive God's favorite creation, the human race. They can do the most absurd antics and we'll attribute them to some kind of unknown physical technology, that's how stupid the human race is. Al the demons want to do is deceive us. That's what they've done since Eden when Satan brought about the Fall. His demon hordes set themselves up in every human setting to be their "gods." They could even get away with requiring their human worshippers to kill their own babies in brutal ways as sacrifice to them.

There is no such thing as aliens from other parts of the physical universe. These are demonic beings trying to set us up to accept their rulership again despite the fact that Jesus defeated them at the cross. They know they can do this until He comes again, after which it will be all over for them. Meanwhile what a good job they do of making us think they are something other than what they are.

Vallee was a pretty respected UFO expert. I wonder why his stuff isn't more accepted? It's ludicrous to think of the US government treating these creatures as enemies with scary technology and getting witnesses to sign nondisclosure agreements. All you have to do is tell them Jesus has defeated their sorry little selves and leave us alone and they have to obey. Oh they CAN do damage though, I wouldn't want to minimize that, and as it says in scripture if they consider you to be pretending they aren't going to obey you. "Jesus I know, and Paul I know but WHO are YOU?" They can beat you up and throw you around, maybe worse for all I know, but they are just demons, they aren't aliens from other planets.

===============
*Vallee has written a number of books on this subject. HERE's ONE.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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