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Author Topic:   Believe in UFOs? This editorial's for you!
jar
Member
Posts: 31646
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 76 of 139 (864524)
10-12-2019 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
10-12-2019 1:06 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
Faith writes:

The testimony of millions means nothing of course.

It only means that millions of people claim to believe what they believe. It means nothing more.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 1:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 1:28 PM jar has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 77 of 139 (864525)
10-12-2019 1:28 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by jar
10-12-2019 1:14 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
There are probably millions of people who believe you are a human being, but we know that means only that they believe what they believe, nothing more, and that they could be wrong and you're really a gerbil..

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by jar, posted 10-12-2019 1:14 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 10-12-2019 1:48 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31646
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 78 of 139 (864526)
10-12-2019 1:48 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Faith
10-12-2019 1:28 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
Correct unless there is additional evidence to support their belief.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 1:28 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 79 of 139 (864530)
10-12-2019 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Faith
10-12-2019 1:06 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
The testimony of millions means nothing of course.

Of course not. Popularity means nothing.

The testimony of millions believe your version of a god is fake. Do you accept that?

Then stop using popularity as an argument when you know it means nothing.

... people have seen something real that isn't explainable by anything normal or natural...

You are saying that people have seen things that are inexplicable. You do know what inexplicable means, right?

Unidentified means not known, it does not mean alien. Inexplicable means not known, it does not mean supernatural.

Unidentified and inexplicable are not evidence of alien or supernatural no matter how many people may believe. They give no reason to believe one fantasy over another. Which means all such fantasies are equally invalid.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 1:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 4:17 PM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 4:27 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 80 of 139 (864531)
10-12-2019 4:17 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by AZPaul3
10-12-2019 4:10 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
Actually let's stick to those who claim to have experienced or witnessed such phenomena, how many I don't know but at least hundreds of thousands. That's not about popularity of an idea.

"Not explained by anything normal or natural" does not mean
'inexplicable'" except in the most mundane sense.

Hyro's video was very convincing that a number of men on a ship and in the air witnessed what were definitely real phenomena, as their instruments even said so, that acted like no physical object ever seen before, and it went on for some time. Many witnesses to a phenomenon not explainable by usual means but definitely real. They were told not to talk about it but later had permission to talk and considered it a huge relief that they could now testify to having seen something that was undoubtedly real that had no normal or natural explanation. They don't even claim to know what it was, just that it was real and didn't fit anything known.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2019 4:10 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2019 7:34 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 81 of 139 (864532)
10-12-2019 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by AZPaul3
10-12-2019 4:10 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
Um, testimony that a god is a fake isn't testimony, it's blind bias. Testimony to its reality, on the other hand, is usually based on a variety of evidences, despite Phat/Thug's acceptance of the idea there is no evidence.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2019 4:10 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by jar, posted 10-12-2019 5:21 PM Faith has not yet responded
 Message 85 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2019 7:45 PM Faith has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 31646
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 82 of 139 (864535)
10-12-2019 5:21 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
10-12-2019 4:27 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
Faith writes:

Testimony to its reality, on the other hand, is usually based on a variety of evidences, despite Phat/Thug's acceptance of the idea there is no evidence.

Then bring the evidence and place it where it can be examined and tested.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 4:27 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 83 of 139 (864544)
10-12-2019 7:22 PM
Reply to: Message 73 by Faith
10-12-2019 1:12 AM


Re: There is voluminous research from top government agencies and people.
quote:
I also mentioned that demons are the gods found all over the world after the Fall. Like those described in the OT I mention above.

Scripture references, please.

("after the Fall")


This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 1:12 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Faith, posted 10-13-2019 7:50 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 84 of 139 (864546)
10-12-2019 7:34 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Faith
10-12-2019 4:17 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
a number of men on a ship and in the air witnessed what were definitely real phenomena, as their instruments even said so, that acted like no physical object ever seen before, and it went on for some time. Many witnesses to a phenomenon not explainable by usual means but definitely real.

No one is saying the experiences were not real.

That is what the USAF was finally admitting. The occurrences were real.

But no one knows what they were seeing. No one can say what the objects were. They do not know if they were seeing falling space junk, pareidolia or Ezekiel's wheel.

Again, unidentified does not mean alien, and inexplicable does not mean supernatural, no matter how hard one wishes it were so.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 4:17 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 10:08 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 85 of 139 (864547)
10-12-2019 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
10-12-2019 4:27 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
testimony that a god is a fake isn't testimony

Testimony is no more than statement.

You say your god is real. I say your god is fantasy.

My testimony carries much more weight than yours because, like your friend Wrightstone above, you are a known proven nutjob with a history of religious nutjobbery while I am both brilliant and sane.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 4:27 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 10:10 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 86 of 139 (864548)
10-12-2019 7:46 PM


Elizondo just said there is physical material of certain UFO providence!
Just days ago:

https://www.foxnews.com/...ed-ufo-material-pentagon-official

Elizondo has been making a powerful case against dogma, in recent months.

(older story, not the one from a few days ago)

quote:
Published June 15

Luis Elizondo: Why is the government finally admitting UFOs are real, and why should we pay attention?

Luis Elizondo By Luis Elizondo | Fox News

....

The paradox

In December 2017, much of the world was stunned to learn that pilots from the USS Nimitz encountered something eerily similar to the above scenario back in 2004, while conducting an exercise off of the sunny, southern coast of California. Just like a script from a science fiction movie, Top Gun-trained fighter pilots from the Nimitz were unfairly engaged with and attempting to intercept something that could only be described as extraordinary.

What the pilots encountered that day was able to perform in ways that defied all logic and our current understanding of aerodynamics. Furthermore, beyond what the pilots saw with their own trained eye, the technological feat they encountered was further verified by the impressive Aegis SPY-1 radar, America’s premiere radar system at the time, and even gun camera footage and sonar systems from submarines accompanying the carrier.

So far, we have observed some of its capabilities, but we still have no idea of its intent. From that perspective, this unorthodox challenge may still be considered a potential threat.

....

more than one publication was able to independently verify that these incidents, along with many others, were officially reported to the Pentagon’s own secretive program called the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP), which was tasked with trying to decode the mystery of unidentified aerial phenomena (UAP).

Equally shocking to most was the fact that these incidents were not isolated and continued for at least a decade later and involved other carrier battle groups around the world.

.....

The unorthodox

The American military complex is arguably the world’s greatest institution at responding to threats. This is true on the battlefields, cyberspace, and even in outer space. If there is one thing we are good at, it is developing technologies to counter any threats in order to maintain our dominance. So why are we so utterly unprepared to address something that can easily out-maneuver our best-in-class pilots, in our very own tightly controlled airspace?

Part of the reason is because these anomalous systems can perform in ways that are not only beyond our own capabilities, but far surpass our current understanding of aerodynamics and physics! Where do you start when every rule you’ve been taught to live by has been broken?

As it turns out, our biggest weakness may be the dogma by which we are blinded. Luckily, recent understanding in quantum physics and next-generation technology may be able to help us address this problem.

....

During my time managing AATIP, I learned first-hand that perhaps the greatest threat of all was not from the phenomena, but from ourselves. Our inability to process data that did not fit neatly within our own paradigms of what constitutes a threat or an ally, which often led to blank stares and uncomfortable silence.

Eventually, we were stuck in this never-ending loop of disbelief, stigma, and "paralysis by analysis." Even to this day, there are elements within the U.S. government that resist further study of this topic despite the overwhelming evidence provided by our brave men and women in uniform, which is also backed by our most advanced and reliable sensors and technology.

So here we are at the paradox of the unorthodox.

https://www.foxnews.com/...luis-elizondo-admitting-ufos-real


Carl Sagan said that in every age and culture, there are those who see beyond the prejudices of their day, and faithfully record the facts of an event.

(It was in the context of Sagan covering a Middle Age written record of the moon turning color from a possible middle age impact, thanks to a monastic religious community of witnesses who might have been inclined to record fanciful details due to false notions of their day)

Dogma is indeed getting in the way of proper analysis.

(Faith says the sightings are from demons flying on brooms, and many others are saying everything can be fully explained by reflections of the clouds showing up on a person's reading glasses)


  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1576
Joined: 12-22-2015


Message 87 of 139 (864554)
10-12-2019 8:21 PM


When Elizondo said it is not "us":
The part about it not being "us":

quote:
ALIENS
UFO Lobbyists Are Trying to Get the Truth From Congress, and They're Winning
There's been an explosion of UFO lobbyists in DC—from Tom DeLonge to lawyers who demand that the president does a "Disclosure," in which he admits aliens live among us.
By MJ Banias
06 October 2019, 7:47pm

....

“At no time do we or have we mentioned extraterrestrials. We are simply ensuring our government does not fall victim to ‘strategic surprise’ by the technology being displayed by [Unknown Aerial Phenomena],” Luis Elizondo, a former intelligence officer who was involved in the Pentagon’s UFO hunting Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program, told Motherboard. “Whether it be from Russia, China, allies, or little green men. Our efforts focus on the national security and technology aspect; not ET.”

....

“We simply don't know at this point if non-human technology is even part of the equation,” Elizondo stated. “It is a nonsensical assertion at this point in time because we simply need more data to even make that initial assessment.”

https://www.vice.com/...d-lawmakers-are-apparently-listening


But headlines like these might give another impression:

quote:
FIRST CONTACT Pentagon X-files chief explains why aliens HAVE visited Earth after leading secret UFO-hunting project
Luis Elizondo said: 'My personal belief is that there is very compelling evidence that we may not be alone'

Sam WebbJames Beal
19 Dec 2017, 15:47Updated: 20 Dec 2017, 13:52

https://www.thesun.co.uk/...-chief-aliens-have-visited-earth


The "us" seems to be America's military pilots and their superiors.


  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 88 of 139 (864563)
10-12-2019 10:08 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by AZPaul3
10-12-2019 7:34 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
No one is saying the experiences were not real.

That is what the USAF was finally admitting. The occurrences were real.

But no one knows what they were seeing. No one can say what the objects were. They do not know if they were seeing falling space junk, pareidolia or Ezekiel's wheel.

They certainly do knjow that they were not any of those things. They were real objects, and their instruments registered their physical existence, but objects not behaving like anything they'd ever encountered before. They would recognize falling space junk, nobody ventured to give an opinioin what they were so they weren't paredolia, and Ezekiel's wheels were a vision. Whatever these were, they registered as physical objects, were witnessed by many, persisted over enough time to establish their reality, and behaved like no other known objects.

Again, unidentified does not mean alien, and inexplicable does not mean supernatural, no matter how hard one wishes it were so.

Since nobody in this case has suggested any such thing your objection is just plain weird. Some kind of mental problem perhaps.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2019 7:34 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by AZPaul3, posted 10-13-2019 12:28 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 33699
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 89 of 139 (864564)
10-12-2019 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by AZPaul3
10-12-2019 7:45 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
I say your testimony to a nongod is just a mental aberration of your own, whereas testimony to the existence of a god is based on various kinds of evidence.

AbE: Chris Pinto's film on the American Founders makes it clear that the "Reason" that replaced religion in the Enlightenment context was purely biased opinion. Reason told them virgins didn't get pregnant, that people don't rise from the dead etc. These normal cases are interpreted to be the only possibility, exceptions couldn't possibly occur, God is simply denied so miraculous powers are denied. Therefore it never happened. So much for Reason.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by AZPaul3, posted 10-12-2019 7:45 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4740
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 90 of 139 (864567)
10-13-2019 12:28 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by Faith
10-12-2019 10:08 PM


Re: Throwing Chunks
They would recognize falling space junk,

Would they? I agree that in most cases they should but can anyone say for certain it was not? No.

Since nobody in this case has suggested any such thing ...

Lots of folks are interpreting these instances as ET. That's why there is such titillation in the UFO community. They see this announcement as the USAF admitting there are aliens.

And you, yourself, said in a number of messages upstream here that they weren't aliens but were supernatural demons.

That does not mean I do not have some weird mental problem but it certainly does mean that people are interpreting "unidentified" as "alien" and, you, specifically, interpreted "inexplicable" as "supernatural."

So, again, no, unidentified does not mean alien no matter what the UFO weenies care to believe and inexplicable does not mean supernatural no matter what the devil is whispering in your left ear.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by Faith, posted 10-12-2019 10:08 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 91 by Faith, posted 10-13-2019 12:38 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
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