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Author Topic:   Police Shootings
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 173 of 524 (848705)
02-14-2019 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Percy
02-14-2019 9:18 AM


Re: And Again!
Christopher Ransom, wielder of the fake gun. He will be charged with murder in the death of Detective Brian Simonsen. Problem solved. Case closed.

A felony murder charge is applied when a death occurs during the commission of another crime. There obviously should be an investigation into the shooting but the charge isn't out of the ordinary.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Percy, posted 02-14-2019 9:18 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-22-2019 4:52 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 180 of 524 (849054)
02-22-2019 6:23 PM
Reply to: Message 179 by Hyroglyphx
02-22-2019 4:52 PM


Re: And Again!
All my US law education is from the University of Law & Order, that's where I've heard it referred to as felony murder.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 179 by Hyroglyphx, posted 02-22-2019 4:52 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 256 of 524 (860870)
08-12-2019 5:46 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by Percy
08-12-2019 5:40 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
The images illustrate why assault rifles are so much more deadly than normal firearms, because of what the bullets do once they enter the body.

there are multitudes of non assault rifles that fire 5.56NATO/.223REM. Being fired from an M-4 doesn't make a round more deadly than an identical one fired from a REM700.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by Percy, posted 08-12-2019 5:40 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 257 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 6:00 PM DrJones* has responded
 Message 261 by Percy, posted 08-12-2019 7:56 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 258 of 524 (860873)
08-12-2019 6:24 PM
Reply to: Message 257 by Theodoric
08-12-2019 6:00 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
Though the round is not more deadly because of the gun, the particular gun can make it more destructive.

Tell that to Percy. He seems to think that the danger of assault rifles comes from the round they fire. And yes depending on the model a REM 700 probably has a longer barrel length than an M-4, giving it a greater muzzle velocity.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 6:00 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 6:39 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 260 of 524 (860876)
08-12-2019 7:36 PM
Reply to: Message 259 by Theodoric
08-12-2019 6:39 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
That does not mitigate the destructive power on humans of the round.

I'm not saying it does. Percy said in the message that i was replying to that

The images illustrate why assault rifles are so much more deadly than normal firearms, because of what the bullets do once they enter the body

I'm trying to tell him that he's wrong, that a bullet fired from an assault rifle is not more deadly than one fired from a hunting rifle.

You seem to want to be a little pedantic

As Percy (and everyone else) can see from the current flood geology thread with Faith, it's a little annoying trying to have a discussion with someone who doesn't know what they are talking about.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 259 by Theodoric, posted 08-12-2019 6:39 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 263 of 524 (860887)
08-13-2019 12:07 AM
Reply to: Message 261 by Percy
08-12-2019 7:56 PM


Re: Dayton Shooting
In my view we don't need weapon/ammunition combos that cause such massive bodily harm. They should be off limits to civilians.

so you want to take away all the hunting rifles as well.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Percy, posted 08-12-2019 7:56 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 264 by Percy, posted 08-13-2019 12:29 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 358 of 524 (867817)
12-03-2019 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by Percy
12-03-2019 3:04 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Is a suicide vest in the shape of an actual vest in that it covers the trunk of the body where a "kill shot" would be aimed?

in the pictures I've seen of them they're generally more of a belt than a vest.

Same question as earlier: What does a suicide vest look like, and if it covers the trunk then where does your "kill shot" go?

in the head, at 7-10 ft a head shot should be nothing for a trained shooter.

your certainty that the suicide vest would be detonated if the suspect wasn't killed?

little point in wearing one if your weren't intent on setting it off. The police didn't know it was fake, they'd have to assume the guy was willing to use it.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 3:04 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 360 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 3:41 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 361 of 524 (867821)
12-03-2019 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by Percy
12-03-2019 3:41 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
What if his intent was that it go off only in the event of his death?

what if he intended it to go off when a pink unicorn ran past? you can what if this to death. They might be popular on movies/TV but I've never heard of a real bomb being linked to someone's heartbeat.

If he had a dead man's switch he could have released it at any time, if he had a command detonator he could have set it off at any time, it could be on a timer, it could be rigged with a cell phone and detonated remotely. The police had to act to eliminate the threat, kill the guy to prevent him from setting off the bomb, take the chance that since he has yet to trigger a dead man's switch that he doesn't have one. let the bomb squad deal with any other detonator scenarios.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 3:41 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 362 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 5:26 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 363 of 524 (867831)
12-03-2019 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by Percy
12-03-2019 5:26 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Or perhaps he hoped to break free, run into a crowd, and detonate there.

right, which is why you kill him as soon as you have a chance.

Yes, they were taking a risk. That's my point.

everything was risky. If they didn't shoot him they risked the above scenario

How about letting the bomb squad deal with all bomb detonator scenarios?

and you expect the bad guy to just stand by and wait for them to arrive and work on him?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 5:26 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 364 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 8:25 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 365 of 524 (867841)
12-03-2019 9:54 PM
Reply to: Message 364 by Percy
12-03-2019 8:25 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
There was no need to kill him.

they prevented him from breaking free and running off into a crowd to detonate his bomb


This message is a reply to:
 Message 364 by Percy, posted 12-03-2019 8:25 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by Percy, posted 12-04-2019 8:06 PM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 369 of 524 (867855)
12-04-2019 10:01 AM
Reply to: Message 368 by Percy
12-04-2019 9:37 AM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Maybe he didn't have the courage to kill himself.

too fucking bad

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 368 by Percy, posted 12-04-2019 9:37 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 376 of 524 (867920)
12-04-2019 9:08 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by Percy
12-04-2019 8:06 PM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
When the last passerby was pulled away then any attempt by the suspect to rise would justify shooting him.

how does shooting him in the leg prevent him from detonating the bomb?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Percy, posted 12-04-2019 8:06 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Percy, posted 12-05-2019 10:58 AM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 380 of 524 (867960)
12-05-2019 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Percy
12-05-2019 10:58 AM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
The goal is to follow a course of action that leads through the least worst situations by accounting for their lethalities and probabilities.

or you could just shoot the guy in the head and be done with the possibility of him command detonating the bomb.

This was't a kid with a toy gun or a driver reaching for his ID, this was a suspect in multiple attacks with a deadly weapon, wearing what appeared to be a suicide vest the police acted appropriately.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Percy, posted 12-05-2019 10:58 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by Percy, posted 12-05-2019 11:55 AM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 383 of 524 (867968)
12-05-2019 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by Percy
12-05-2019 11:55 AM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
You're also endorsing an execution.

I'm endorsing the police acting in defense of themselves and others.

This appears to argue that committing an attack makes you fair game for execution instead of just arrest.

nope, you're leaving out the part where wearing a suicide vest makes you an imminent threat

Or was aiming their guns just a precaution and they only fired after seeing the vest.

have you never seen any footage of police aiming their guns at people? You aim the gun so that if you have to use it you're ready and you don't waste time acquiring your target. This wasn't preparing to execute the guy, it was preparing to respond to his actions.

For all they knew everyone's wounds were superficial and the suspect was a schizophrenic who was having problems with adjustments to his medication

what they knew was that he was wearing what appeared to be a suicide vest, he was an imminent threat to their lives and others.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by Percy, posted 12-05-2019 11:55 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by Percy, posted 12-06-2019 9:31 AM DrJones* has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2107
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 388 of 524 (868011)
12-06-2019 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 387 by Percy
12-06-2019 9:31 AM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
What action did the man take that police responded to by shooting him dead?

he put on a suicide vest and went out in public.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 387 by Percy, posted 12-06-2019 9:31 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 389 by Tangle, posted 12-06-2019 10:05 AM DrJones* has not yet responded
 Message 401 by Percy, posted 12-07-2019 9:13 AM DrJones* has responded

  
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