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Author Topic:   Police Shootings
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 610 (830502)
03-31-2018 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
03-31-2018 9:45 AM


I think many times the police are placed in untenable situations having to make rapid fire decisions based on incomplete information

The situations are sometimes even less defensible than that. Police often put themselves in untenable situations through bad decision making, get "fearful" and then shoot their way out of those situations. The Tamir Rice shooting certainly fits that description, and we've certainly seen many others that fit my description. Usually, police officers who do shoot people in those situations don't lose their jobs.

One thing seems clear: If you're carrying a cellphone and are ordered by a police officer, "Put the gun down," you likely would not do anything.

Are you kidding me? If I hear that, I'm going face down it the dirt and I'm making snow angels. "Please put your knee in my back officer"

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 03-31-2018 9:45 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Percy, posted 03-31-2018 4:29 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 610 (830516)
04-01-2018 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Modulous
03-31-2018 10:27 PM


Percy writes:

Yeah, maybe that's best. I'd definitely be confused. I would not recall this discussion and think,

Modulous writes:

Presumably you wouldn't be committing a home invasion at 4 in the morning and subsequently being chased by the police.

Presumably, your skin color is not dark allowing for a higher degree of contrast between your hand and anything someone might consider a weapon.

Presumably, if you are of a darker persuasion, you don't have to remember your this conversation, because your pa warned you about this stuff often during your youth.

I've watched the footage of that and it's a difficult one. On the one hand there were only two officers on the scene, but on the other hand one has to wonder if there aren't better ways of handling a suspected gun wielder than hiding behind a wall and peeking out and shooting the person who might have a gun.

Yes. I wonder about that too.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Modulous, posted 03-31-2018 10:27 PM Modulous has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 610 (830703)
04-05-2018 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Percy
04-05-2018 7:06 AM


Re: Oh, Gee, It's Happened Again, What a Surprise
Percy writes:

This is good news, but the police can't take much credit because shootings in general are down in New York City, not just police shootings.

Please explain your logic here. While police may not be responsible for who others shoot, the police certainly have some input into who they (the police) shoot.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Percy, posted 04-05-2018 7:06 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Percy, posted 04-07-2018 5:55 PM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 610 (831858)
04-25-2018 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Percy
04-07-2018 5:55 PM


Re: Oh, Gee, It's Happened Again, What a Surprise
I disagree. Police don't commit more crimes because of the same social pressures that cause criminals to do so. Being hungry or addicted may prompt robberies, thefts, etc., but those things are not why police shoot people. If you want to argue that police were in fewer life and death situations, and made fewer bad decisions, I might buy that. But I don't buy an explanation that police pressures to shoot are the same as the pressures on the criminals. That's seems to me intuitively wrong.

[1] I originally had "clearly" here, but I changed the wording because "clearly" is a meaningless and argumentative thing to say. But I do mean to convey here that the explanation being given seems highly unlikely to me.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith


This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Percy, posted 04-07-2018 5:55 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Percy, posted 04-28-2018 9:06 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 70 of 610 (835335)
06-21-2018 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Hyroglyphx
06-21-2018 5:28 PM


How would you propose officers dealing with an active shooter situation without the use of law enforcement being armed?

The way such things are handled in other countries is that the police are not routinely armed, but can get arms for a particular situation. Perhaps Percy is advocating a similar system for the US.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-21-2018 5:28 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-21-2018 5:45 PM NoNukes has not yet responded
 Message 76 by Percy, posted 06-22-2018 8:34 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 93 of 610 (836067)
07-09-2018 9:54 AM
Reply to: Message 91 by Hyroglyphx
07-09-2018 1:50 AM


So in the Las Vegas massacre, the police should have sat idly by?

Didn't Percy address this? The swat team would have guns. The beat cop would not.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-09-2018 1:50 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 98 of 610 (836165)
07-11-2018 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Percy
07-11-2018 3:03 PM


Re: The police *are* out to get you
Got that? Some cops become expert at manufacturing noncompliance, or whatever else they need to justify their actions.

One problem is us. Yes, it is highly unusual for a cop to be charged, but the few times that does happen, we generally let the cops off the hook. Many folks find it impossible to accept that police are ever in the wrong.

I'll bet that the youtube comments for this video include a bunch of folks saying that the railroad worker shouldn't "have smarted off"[1]

ABE:

[1] No such comments. Pretty much everyone realizes that this cop is a jerk.

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Percy, posted 07-11-2018 3:03 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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