Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 79 (9006 total)
77 online now:
CosmicChimp, Hyroglyphx, PaulK, PurpleYouko, Son Goku (5 members, 72 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Post Volume: Total: 881,257 Year: 13,005/23,288 Month: 730/1,527 Week: 31/138 Day: 4/27 Hour: 0/1

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Police Shootings
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 164 of 571 (844470)
11-30-2018 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Phat
11-30-2018 11:47 AM


Re: Police Murder Fleeing Man at Alabama Mall
How would we make sure there was no black market or that some were hiding weapons? In other words, how specifically could all guns be accounted for should we vote to take them all away?

You wouldn’t do it overnight - it’d be a process, with a load of bumps along the way, and an imperfect end-point, where, yes, there would be some criminals with illegal guns.

But it’s a process that has been shown to work - in Australia, for example.

And the end result of some criminals having guns is one we have here in the UK, and we have massively fewer gun deaths per 1,000 head of population (a deficit which is not accounted for by an increased number of other methods of violent death).

It doesn’t need to be perfect to be massively better.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 11-30-2018 11:47 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 282 of 571 (863343)
09-25-2019 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 281 by Hyroglyphx
09-25-2019 12:17 AM


Here is a prime example of why police officers, even in the UK, should be armed.

No thanks. We’ve done the maths and worked out that more guns leads to more deaths. We’ll stick with fewer deaths.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 281 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 12:17 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 283 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 1:26 AM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 284 of 571 (863348)
09-25-2019 1:42 AM
Reply to: Message 283 by Hyroglyphx
09-25-2019 1:26 AM


We don’t like to kill people. Either deliberately, if they’re wielding a knife, or accidentally, if the police officer is an error prone human being. Call us crazy like that.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 283 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 1:26 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 285 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 2:52 AM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 287 of 571 (863354)
09-25-2019 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 285 by Hyroglyphx
09-25-2019 2:52 AM


Pacifism is violence ? Typical diversionary sloganing.

You seem to be a fan of savagery. Someone wields a knife - kill him ! In another post, you admire the lion for killing what it eats.

There's a preference here for civilisation over savagery. We've seen the ultimate expression of savagery in a modern society and we're not fans.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 2:52 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 11:34 AM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 294 of 571 (863372)
09-25-2019 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 291 by Hyroglyphx
09-25-2019 11:34 AM


We deal with savagery by locking up those people whom we catch doing it and whom we successfully prosecute for doing it. Pretending that we don't punish savagery is disingenuous. We deal with it robustly and in a civilised manner. We use guns when we absolutely have to, and then only use highly trained specialist officers. In the vast majority of cases, we do not use and do not need to use guns. This approach generally works well, and leads to a lower death rate than would be the case with guns. Killing people is bad.

The human race has come a long way since we came down from the trees - personally I have no desire for us to go back there. Your mileage may vary.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 291 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-25-2019 11:34 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 343 of 571 (866740)
11-15-2019 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 342 by Percy
11-15-2019 9:02 AM


Re: This wasn't a shooting, but...
The thing is, if you are working with someone who is an evil SoB, you know you're working with an evil SoB. And if you do nothing about that (particularly in a job which is so dangerous to innocent members of the public), then there is something seriously wrong with the way you see your job.

A policeman or policewoman should have integrity, decency, honesty and concern for others' welfare at the very core of their being. That should define the role.

I'm sure we'll see some very carefully drafted defensiveness from the sheriff's department, and probably a sacrifice of the evil SoB involved. What they should do is admit that they made serious mistakes in allowing the evil SoB to enter and to remain on the force , and make sure they root out all other evil SoB's they have amongst their number.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 342 by Percy, posted 11-15-2019 9:02 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 440 of 571 (868427)
12-12-2019 6:31 AM


Some useful testimony from London Bridge.
This may help give some useful data, in relation to discussions about the London Bridge shooting.

One of the people who fought the attacker, John Crilly, has given an interview about what happened. In relation to the actions of the police, this is the extract from the report:

In his first broadcast interview since the attack, Crilly, 48, told of the moment armed police confronted the knifeman on London Bridge.

He said: "It seemed like ages before they shot him. It wasn't all gung-ho and trigger happy, they proper took their time, to the point where I did scream 'shoot him'."

Now, we can clearly assess whether or not we choose to believe what Mr Crilly says, but in my view, his opinion and views as to the circumstances of the shooting are more valuable than our conjecture.

Link to the piece:

I was prepared to die, says London Bridge 'hero'


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 442 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2019 6:47 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 441 of 571 (868428)
12-12-2019 6:46 AM
Reply to: Message 439 by Tangle
12-12-2019 2:40 AM


Re: Unarmed Police Does Work
Sorry Tangle - just saw your post (I got part way through mine and then finished it off before I re-read the topic). We've covered the same ground.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 439 by Tangle, posted 12-12-2019 2:40 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 477 of 571 (876740)
05-27-2020 5:47 AM


Not a shooting, but jeez !
Death of US black man in custody sparks clashes

He was unarmed.
He was handcuffed.
He told them he couldn't breathe.
Bystanders told them to get off him.
And for 5 solid minutes, they choked the life out of him.

If these guys (or at the least, the main perpetrator) are not prosecuted and convicted of (at the least) manslaughter, then America is broken as a free and decent country.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 494 of 571 (877210)
06-08-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 490 by Percy
06-08-2020 11:03 AM


Re: The Silencing of the Press
Hi Percy. Her Facebook page is saying the link is broken or the page has been removed. Do we know what’s happened to it ?

Thanks.

ABE - working now.

Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Percy, posted 06-08-2020 11:03 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 495 by kjsimons, posted 06-08-2020 12:01 PM vimesey has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 513 of 571 (877317)
06-12-2020 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 512 by Hyroglyphx
06-09-2020 3:40 PM


Re: Protests
I am aware that the protests have (in some circumstances, but certainly not in the majority) turned violent. I wouldn’t be surprised if some Antifa involvement had occurred (and nor would I be surprised if, as has been reported, there has been some involvement by right wing organisations too). And if an aspect of this is that paid agitators have been involved, that also wouldn’t surprise me. There have been some ugly aspects to the protests.

But these factors are as nothing, nothing to the sheer enormity of the continuing blight and evil of racism.

There is a huge, vile, ugly elephant in the room - and it’s starting to roar. You seem to be worried that it’s leaving a few scuff marks on the furniture.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 512 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-09-2020 3:40 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 514 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2020 7:19 PM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 516 of 571 (877423)
06-16-2020 1:10 AM
Reply to: Message 514 by Hyroglyphx
06-15-2020 7:19 PM


Re: Protests
Paul has said it very eloquently, so I won’t repeat his reply to you.

I will however point out one misunderstanding which is very prevalent, and which you seem to share. Systemic racism, (which is what the problem is) does not mean that everyone, or even a majority of people, are racist. It boils down to meaning two things: (1) the system is set up so that it disadvantages non-white people; and (2) the system is set up so that it enables and protects truly racist individuals.

The fact that there are many white people who aren’t racist, doesn’t mean that systemic racism does not exist. And as long as it does, we will live in a racist society, even if a lot of us aren’t racist.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 514 by Hyroglyphx, posted 06-15-2020 7:19 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 532 of 571 (881738)
08-28-2020 2:17 PM


Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
Paralysed Jacob Blake 'handcuffed to hospital bed'

For the love of god what is wrong with the police over there ?


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by Coragyps, posted 08-28-2020 2:29 PM vimesey has not yet responded
 Message 540 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-23-2020 11:09 AM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 541 of 571 (882427)
09-23-2020 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 540 by Hyroglyphx
09-23-2020 11:09 AM


Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
There was a prisoner a few years ago who was in custody at the Travis County Jail who threw himself down some stairs and faked as if he was paralyzed. Fooled everyone. The jail nurses, doctors, deputies

And how the precise fuck do you fake being shot in the back seven fucking times by a police officer ? I don't know about you, but if I'd been shot in the back seven times, I think it's safe to say that an inability to leap gazelle-like off a gurney would be unlikely to be something that I invented.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 540 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-23-2020 11:09 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 543 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-23-2020 11:38 AM vimesey has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1176
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 546 of 571 (882450)
09-23-2020 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 543 by Hyroglyphx
09-23-2020 11:38 AM


Re: Jacob Blake handcuffed to his hospital bed ???
You are not covering yourself in glory here Hyro. You’re arguing that a man who has just been shot seven times in the back at close range is potentially capable of running off or assaulting people. That is not the argument of a sane person.

You say that cops aren’t doctors (although it does not take a medical degree, or anything much above 2 IQ points to work out the above, but there you go) - if only they’d been in, oh I don’t know, a hospital and been able to find a doctor to ask...

The police have duties not just to the rest of the public, but also to the people they arrest. See if you can guess why.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 543 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-23-2020 11:38 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 547 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-23-2020 11:38 PM vimesey has responded
 Message 549 by Phat, posted 09-24-2020 10:22 AM vimesey has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020