Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8965 total)
45 online now:
anglagard, caffeine, frako, PaulK (4 members, 41 visitors)
Newest Member: javier martinez
Post Volume: Total: 873,090 Year: 4,838/23,288 Month: 1,743/1,286 Week: 57/353 Day: 4/53 Hour: 0/1


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Police Shootings
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1659
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 316 of 476 (863902)
10-02-2019 9:19 PM


The real issues here.
1

From 1854 to 2003, no white got the death penalty for killing a black in Texas. Up until 2016 (and possibly ever), no white ever got the death penalty for killing a black, in Florida. No whites got executed for killing blacks in Alabama from 1913-2016 in Alabama.

https://www.themarshallproject.org/...anomaly-of-dylann-roof

2

This lady was on record (electronic messages to a friend) supporting a person who trained his dog to have a certain (unfriendly and alert) reaction to blacks. She essentially described herself as "racist" (the dog was said to be "racist").

THIS LADY IS A POLICE OFFICER!

3

This lady said, in electronic communication, she shoots "fast" so she dies "last". She was describing her police conduct.

(She must shoot fast when in the middle of an on-duty policing situation, if she shot a harmless and unarmed man point blank in the chest, while not in the heat of a job-related situation)

SOLUTIONS?

The most simple solution to the problem of racist cops shooting blacks is to only hire black officers IN THE FUTURE. One can grandfather clause existing white police-officers. But future white officers should be disqualified.

The issue of the "I was scared" problem is more difficult to pin down. We can easily see what an awful officer this lady was, NOW, but her fellow officers sure did fail to notice what they probably should have.

MY THOUGHTS AND COMMENTS:

A 10 year sentence for murder is odd in a state like Texas, but that was apparently was a majority-black jury decision.

This "murder" charge and conviction really was a no-brainer. Good job, Dallas, on that part.

What to do about racist police officers? I think there really needs to be some radical solutions, there.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
 Message 317 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-03-2019 12:21 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 319 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2019 9:50 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1659
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 317 of 476 (863912)
10-03-2019 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by LamarkNewAge
10-02-2019 9:19 PM


Re: The real issues here. (National Review article on Guyger)
quote:
The Corner

Law & the Courts

With the Guyger Verdict, a Texas Jury Chips Away at the Unwritten Law That Helps Bad Cops Go Free

By David French

October 1, 2019 3:02 PM

Earlier today, a Dallas jury convicted former Dallas police officer Amber Guyger of murder after she mistakenly entered the wrong apartment and shot dead its rightful occupant — a young black man named Botham Jean. The verdict came in spite of an incredibly puzzling jury instruction permitting Guyger to argue that Texas’s “Castle Doctrine” could apply to her actions. Under the Castle Doctrine, the use of force is presumed reasonable if another person is “unlawfully and with force entering or attempting to enter your occupied home, car, or place of business.” Yet Guyger was the armed person unlawfully entering Jean’s home. He had the right to shoot Guyger. She had no right to shoot him.

The jury’s verdict is significant — and not just because justice was done in this dreadful case. It’s a small data point that some juries in some jurisdictions may well be rejecting a classic police defense that’s been used to help bad officers escape accountability for unjustified shootings. In jurisdiction after jurisdiction, the written law requires officers to show that they used deadly force based on a “reasonable” belief that the suspect presented a risk of inflicting deadly force or serious bodily harm. Yet in jurisdiction after jurisdiction, juries have followed a different, unwritten code — that virtually any expression of fear by a cop justifies a shooting. As I’ve argued before, clever defense lawyers twist the legal standard into a line of argument that goes something like this: The officer was afraid, and she can explain to you the reasons why she was afraid. Therefore, it was reasonable that she was afraid.

https://www.nationalreview.com/...hat-helps-bad-cops-go-free


Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-02-2019 9:19 PM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 318 of 476 (863916)
10-03-2019 9:18 AM
Reply to: Message 315 by Taq
10-01-2019 6:49 PM


Re: Police Murder 17-Year-Old
I'm leaning that way myself. Why does a cop need a gun for issuing a speeding ticket. If you walk up and the driver pulls a gun then turn around, run to your car, lock the door. Perhaps the police officer could have a gun in the car that can be used when someone keeps shooting at them when they are in the car. If the suspect speeds away, call it in and get the special units to chase them down.

At first I thought you were trolling, but I'm starting to lean towards a genuine delusion on your part. You live in a land of make believe with this kind of naiveté.

Cops don't need guns to issue traffic tickets, as it were. But traffic stops are among the most dangerous instances where violence is leveled against them. I'm sure in your mind you believe cops are ninjas and can either dodge or outrun bullets, but they can't. Nobody can. Not even a ninja, a Navy Seal, the fastest or most agile human that has ever lived, nor even the fastest animal that has ever lived can do that. Even if they could, police aren't equipped with armored vehicles that withstand even a .22 round, let alone a larger caliber round. But even if they could, do these magical, specialized units have godlike, omnipresent abilities where they can just kind of be everywhere simultaneously at the exact moment they're needed most? Because that's more or less how you've imagined this perfect, foolproof plan in your mind when it is in reality it so far removed from practicability that its laughable.

By the way SWAT officers only show up an hour after patrol officers (with guns) have contained a scene where there is 1. subject(s) that are armed and 2. are barricaded.

If that wasn't enough, you then said police could have guns in their vehicle, which everyone will now know to be the precedent... just wait for the cop to get up to your vehicle so that (s)he is now away from their weapon. A weapon that is not readily accessible is no weapon at all.

Cops don't need guns to issue citations, they need guns to be able to adequately defend themselves in instances where someone chooses to try to kill them or someone else. Those instances can literally happen at any given time. Do British police officers need a baton to write traffic citations? Or do they carry them to defend themselves against aggressors? Maybe they should leave them in the car because they don't need them during traffic stops.

Furthermore, police officers handle a very wide variety of calls. You associate police with doing little else than running traffic because that's what you happen to see, but in reality they handle a diverse and wide array of calls for service that you don't see... and perhaps if you did see what they actually do from day to day you might have a more forgiving appreciation for why standard practices are standard.

Right now, an officer will have his hand on the gun, ready to draw and fire at the slightest provocation, just for a speeding ticket. That makes no sense.

If it makes no sense, its because your nonsensical hypotheticals don't make sense. Name a single time where a police officer gunned down someone for speeding. Never happened. Here's how it actually goes: Officer initiates a traffic stop after having observed a traffic infraction -- driver or some passenger gets pissed off and makes furtive or overt movements that (s)he is trying to kill the officer. Officer responds to what has been presented to them. That's extremely disingenuous and is not the same as getting shot for speeding.

You're taking the reason for the stop as being the same as the reason for an officer involved shooting.

So, I would agree that it makes no sense... because you have no sense.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 315 by Taq, posted 10-01-2019 6:49 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 319 of 476 (863917)
10-03-2019 9:50 AM
Reply to: Message 316 by LamarkNewAge
10-02-2019 9:19 PM


Re: The real issues here.
From 1854 to 2003, no white got the death penalty for killing a black in Texas. Up until 2016 (and possibly ever), no white ever got the death penalty for killing a black, in Florida. No whites got executed for killing blacks in Alabama from 1913-2016 in Alabama.

Nobody gets a death sentence for murder... the only time they're eligible for the death penalty is for a Capital murder.

The most simple solution to the problem of racist cops shooting blacks is to only hire black officers IN THE FUTURE. One can grandfather clause existing white police-officers. But future white officers should be disqualified.

So your solution to racism is by adding more racism?

A 10 year sentence for murder is odd in a state like Texas, but that was apparently was a majority-black jury decision.

5-99 is what is lawfully proscribed in Texas for this level of offense. I think 25 years would have been more appropriate than 10. No wonder the black residents of Dallas' joy over a conviction was short-lived once they heard 10 years.

What to do about racist police officers? I think there really needs to be some radical solutions, there.

Good departments institute training that uncovers both explicit and implicit biases, which everyone is susceptible to on some level. Lets take your own as a fine example. Your assumption is that White + Police = Racist. In fact, so much so that you would actually disqualify white people from becoming police officers on the sole basis of their race.

If Amber Guyger had shot a white person in their own home, the fact that she is a police officer would have garnered some attention. It remains to be seen whether it would have garnered as much attention given the dynamic of white officer and innocent black resident.

Seems like you're implying that she was only scared enough to shoot a black guy but wouldn't have been scared enough to shoot a white guy. You've deduced this based on some racist text messages. Was Amber Guyger a racist? Quite possibly. Was Botham Jean killed solely on account of his race? Maybe? I think the bigger problem is that somebody with Guyger's mentality should have never been able to be a police officer. But my even bigger problem is your assertion that if you're white and if you're a police officer that it 100% certifies you as a racist... so much so that it should disqualify you from the profession. That is both remarkable and ironic.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 316 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-02-2019 9:19 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 320 by LamarkNewAge, posted 10-04-2019 10:40 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1659
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 320 of 476 (863995)
10-04-2019 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 319 by Hyroglyphx
10-03-2019 9:50 AM


Re: The real issues here.
quote:
Nobody gets a death sentence for murder... the only time they're eligible for the death penalty is for a Capital murder.

But that is not true.

In Florida (a state with a population bigger than New York state), first degree murder does bring the death penalty.

But, no white has ever gotten the death penalty in the blood-hungry state of Florida IF THE VICTIM WAS BLACK.

This is a diverse state with a population larger than most countries.

Lots of white on white murders in Florida. Lots of black on black murders in Florida. Lots of black on white murders in Florida. Lots of white on black murders there.

Lots of death sentences in Florida.

It just so happens that Florida has never executed a white person for killing a black.

Why?

(We know why, and the attitudes of Florida aren't too different from the rest of the country)

quote:
Good departments institute training that uncovers both explicit and implicit biases, which everyone is susceptible to on some level. Lets take your own as a fine example. Your assumption is that White + Police = Racist. In fact, so much so that you would actually disqualify white people from becoming police officers on the sole basis of their race.

There has been a problem in the larger "white community" at-large.

This "problem" has caused too many black humans to loose their lives.

This problem has been noticed (very well-noted) in the black community.

This problem is a cancer upon the body of the nation.

This problem has caused many tens of millions to loose confidence in the larger population in the United States of America.

There is a problem with WHITE RACISM (and racial bias against black humans).

White racism (in all of its shades) is real.

It is a major problem.

Major problems require major solutions.

Edited by LamarkNewAge, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 319 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2019 9:50 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1659
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 321 of 476 (863998)
10-04-2019 11:59 PM


Studies show us that shootings (police or civilian) are viewed racially.
https://www.themarshallproject.org/...o-be-ruled-justifiable

quote:
FILED 5:30 a.m.
08.14.2017
ANALYSIS
Killings of Black Men by Whites are Far More Likely to be Ruled “Justifiable”
The disparity remains no matter the circumstances and has persisted for decades.
By DANIEL LATHROP & ANNA FLAGG

When a white person kills a black man in America, the killer often faces no legal consequences.

In one in six of these killings, there is no criminal sanction, according to a new Marshall Project examination of 400,000 homicides committed by civilians between 1980 and 2014. That rate is far higher than the one for homicides involving other combinations of races.

....

In almost 17 percent of cases when a black man was killed by a non-Hispanic white civilian over the last three decades, the killing was categorized as justifiable, which is the term used when a police officer or a civilian kills someone committing a crime or in self-defense. Overall, the police classify fewer than 2 percent of homicides committed by civilians as justifiable.

The disparity persists across different cities, different ages, different weapons and different relationships between killer and victim.

To understand the gaps, The Marshall Project obtained dozens of data sets from the Federal Bureau of Investigation and examined various combinations of killer and victim. Two types of “justifiable homicide” are noted: “felon killed by private citizen” or “felon killed by police officer.” (In a bit of circular logic, the person killed is presumptively classified as a felon, since the homicide could be justified only if a life was threatened, which is a crime.)

The data were processed to standardize key variables and exclude more than 200,000 cases that lacked essential information or were homicides committed by police. The resulting data detail the circumstances of each death; any weapons used; information on the killer’s and victim’s race, age, ethnicity and sex; and how police investigators classify each type of killing (“brawl due to the influence of alcohol”, “sniper attack” or “lover’s triangle”, for example).

Little large-scale research has examined the role of race in “justifiable” homicides that do not involve police. The data examined by The Marshall Project are more comprehensive and cover a longer time period than other research into the question, much of which has focused on controversial “Stand Your Ground” laws.

In the United States, the law of self-defense allows civilians to use deadly force in cases where they have a reasonable belief force is necessary to defend themselves or others. How that is construed varies from state to state, but the question often depends on what the killer believed when pulling the trigger.


This was about a third of the text article.

There are a lot of graphics to show the data from different cities.

Very informative.

It is a disturbing reality


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19625
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 322 of 476 (864562)
10-12-2019 9:32 PM


Another Wellness Check Gone Wrong
Today Atatiana Jefferson, 28, was shot and killed in her bedroom by a Fort Worth police officer conducting a wellness check. The officer fired through the window after calling out, “Put your hands up. Show me your hands.” He said he perceived a threat. He’s been placed on administrative leave.

Of course Ms. Jefferson was unarmed. She wasn’t even aware the police were outside or that anyone had called in a wellness check. Only to a criminal fleeing police would it be obvious that the police are shouting orders at you. To someone in their bedroom the sudden and unexpected shouted words would most likely be unintelligible.

This is actually two tragedies. Ms. Jefferson is dead, and the officer will likely face trial and be found guilty of manslaughter and possibly murder.

Source: Fort Worth Officer Fatally Shot Woman Inside Her Home, Police Say

—Percy

Edited by Percy, : Correct name of decedent, correct link.


Replies to this message:
 Message 323 by Percy, posted 10-15-2019 9:19 AM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19625
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 323 of 476 (864704)
10-15-2019 9:19 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by Percy
10-12-2019 9:32 PM


Re: Another Wellness Check Gone Wrong
There's an update on the killing of Atatiana Jefferson, described in the previous message. The officer involved in the killing, Aaron Dean, has resigned from the Fort Worth Police Department and been charged with murder. This is far faster than anyone could ever have imagined, but Fort Worth has suffered through several similar incidents over the past year. Usually there's the internal police investigation, then the scuffle over whether to make public body cam footage and other evidence, then the state attorney general investigates whether charges are warranted, and all this takes months. But not this time. In less than a week Dean has resigned the force and been charged with murder.

I'm sure people are tired of me saying this, but wellness checks do not require guns. And for too many police (not all or even most, but too many), a gun is the solution of first resort whenever someone has the audacity to not follow orders, in this case within 3 seconds, said orders shouted unexpectedly through a window. Atatiana was playing a video game with her 8-year old nephew at the time.

Source: Fort Worth officer who fatally shot woman in her home has been charged with murder, police say

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by Percy, posted 10-12-2019 9:32 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 325 by Percy, posted 10-16-2019 9:04 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19625
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 324 of 476 (864705)
10-15-2019 9:28 AM


Yet Another Wellness Check Gone Wrong
Robert "Chip" Olsen, who is white, was yesterday acquitted of shooting and killing Anthony Hill, who was black and naked and unarmed. The jury was divided along racial lines. They did convict Olsen of aggravated assault and lying about the shooting. Sentencing is November 1. Olsen potentially faces decades in prison.

Anthony Hill, an Afghanistan veteran, suffered from bipolar disorder and PTSD. On the afternoon of March 9, 2015, he suffered a mental health crisis at his apartment complex. The police were contacted by maintenance workers. The police emerged from their cruiser with guns drawn. Within six or seven seconds Hill was dead.

Source: Cop cleared of murder, convicted of aggravated assault and lying, after shooting unarmed, naked man

--Percy


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19625
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 325 of 476 (864755)
10-16-2019 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 323 by Percy
10-15-2019 9:19 AM


Re: Another Wellness Check Gone Wrong
There's another update on the killing of Atatiana Jefferson. Rather than knocking on the front door and calling out, "Anyone home?", officer Aaron Dean chose to circumnavigate the house secretly. His body cam footage reveals him walking around the house, peering in windows, and whispering to his partner. Atatiana's 8-year old nephew has been interviewed, and according to him his aunt heard noises outside the house, took a handgun, and pointed it at the window. It was at that point that officer Dean fired.

Some reports call this a training problem, that officers should be trained to minimize the possibility of surprise and sudden reaction, that they should place themselves in the mind of the other person to understand how they'll react. But other reports said that Dean had had this training, and that he chose a poor course anyway.

Let's look at this statistically. There are more than a million cops with guns out there, but for simplicity let's just call it an even million. Let's say each cop works a beat 200 days a year, so that's a total of 200 million cop work days a year. Let's say that the odds that a cop makes a poor decision resulting in an innocent civilian's death during the course of a work day is 0.00001%. That's 20 unnecessary civilian deaths a year. The actual number is somewhat larger than that, but it tells us that the 0.00001% error rate is pretty much in the ballpark.

No amount of training is ever going to reduce the error rate per day below something as minuscule as 0.00001%. Police should not have guns, and people who have guns should not be conducting wellness checks.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 323 by Percy, posted 10-15-2019 9:19 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 332 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2019 11:35 PM Percy has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 326 of 476 (865441)
10-25-2019 9:31 AM


Summary execution
16 year old executed for defying authority. This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons.
https://www.theguardian.com/...tta-golding-fresno-california

quote:
The footage shows the teenager running from officers, jumping a fence, falling to the ground and continuing to flee. Murrietta-Golding was an estimated 35 feet away from the officers when one of them fired a single bullet into his head. The officer then hopped the fence, approached the boy’s limp body and handcuffed his hands behind his back...

“He’s unconscious and in the process of dying. What is the threat?” said Chandler. “They just saw him as an animal who had been shot. They hunted a target. It’s inhumane.”
A paramedic report showed that police declined to remove the handcuffs when an EMT arrived, with an officer saying police would only take them off later at the hospital.
Jerry Dyer, the Fresno police chief at the time of the shooting, has previously stated that the officer, Sgt Ray Villalvazo, thought “he was about to be shot”. Dyer claimed the teen “reached into his waistband several times”, according to the Fresno Bee. But the new footage, which Chandler obtained in the process of a civil lawsuit against the department, only shows him running away as he appears to be holding up his pants. He was unarmed...

The shooting happened nine months after Fresno police killed Dylan Noble, shooting the unarmed 19-year-old multiple times, including while he was lying on the ground, barely moving. Advocates have long argued that Fresno police need to focus on de-escalation and anti-bias training, and a 2017 American Civil Liberties Union report found that police shoot people of color at a hugely disproportionate rate in the city.



Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


Replies to this message:
 Message 327 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2019 11:15 AM Theodoric has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 327 of 476 (865511)
10-26-2019 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 326 by Theodoric
10-25-2019 9:31 AM


Re: Summary execution
16 year old executed for defying authority. This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons.

If you're going to make a declaration as poignant as police officers everywhere target "brown and black people," then you should probably have all of the facts.

Fact 1: The decedent was a murder suspect whom they have been looking for extensively.

Fact 2: They located the subject and initiated a felony traffic stop. The suspect first complied and when he was within about two feet from a cop he then decides it would be an awesome time to run away.

Fact 3: The fleeing murder suspect is seen reaching towards his waistband numerous times.

Fact 4: The fleeing murder suspect who's reaching in his waistband jumps a fence.... of a preschool... and is now heading straight for it.

Fact 5: Police officer takes a single shot that strikes the suspect in the back of the head, killing him.

Reviews of the officer's action claim that the shooting is justified.

My own take away is that if I was that officer, I almost certainly would not have taken that shot... I don't think anyone would argue the fact that it doesn't look good. The question is what is lawful and was it the most prudent way to handle it?

In terms of the legality, it was lawful. Because of the facts outlined (facts that were so curiously omitted when describing the execution of brown and black people everywhere) qualifies the event as a fleeing felon. If the officer can articulate that the general public is in danger of a known and dangerous felon, shooting them is permissive under such circumstances. Would I have pulled the trigger at the instance that officer did? No, I wouldn't have. Is it legal? Yes it is.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Theodoric, posted 10-25-2019 9:31 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 328 by Theodoric, posted 10-26-2019 2:38 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 329 by Percy, posted 10-26-2019 4:57 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7051
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 328 of 476 (865514)
10-26-2019 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Hyroglyphx
10-26-2019 11:15 AM


Re: Summary execution
I wasn't going to even respond as you continue your practice of being a dishonest debater and misrepresent what people actually say. That you actually post what I wrote before you misrepresent it makes it more stunning.
make a declaration as poignant as police officers everywhere target "brown and black people,"

I never said that. You know I did not.
I said
me writes:

This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons.


This is something much different, but in your alt right world view it seems to be the same thing. It is not.

Fact 1: The decedent was a murder suspect whom they have been looking for extensively.

Not sure where you got this from. He was wanted for questioning about a murder, but I do not see anywhere that he was a "murder suspect". That doesnt matter anyway. No one is allowed to summarily execute someone because they are a murder subject. Not sure what this fact was supposed to prove?

Fact 2: They located the subject and initiated a felony traffic stop. The suspect first complied and when he was within about two feet from a cop he then decides it would be an awesome time to run away.

Running from a cop is not a capital offense. Again not sure what you think this shows or how it exonerates the cop?
Fact 3: The fleeing murder suspect is seen reaching towards his waistband numerous times.

Not sure why this is a capital offense. If a cop pulls a car over and a suspect starts reaching into his jacket, should they be shot? That seems to be what you are advocating. Please tell me why that would be different. There is no sense addressing the other facts. Just more of the same.

(facts that were so curiously omitted when describing the execution of brown and black people everywhere)

Again you misrepresent what I actually posted. These facts were in the article I linked to. There was no omission. If I was trying to hide those facts I would not have linked to the article. Not sure why you think this is a big gotcha. None of those facts change the argument I made. Also, again you are misrepresenting my argument. I never made any comment about black and brown people being executed everywhere. If all you have is strawman arguments maybe you should consider someplace else to hangout online.
Is it legal? Yes it is.

I don't think I posted anything about legality. How about you try to address what I posted and not strawman arguments.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2019 11:15 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 330 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2019 10:33 PM Theodoric has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19625
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 329 of 476 (865517)
10-26-2019 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 327 by Hyroglyphx
10-26-2019 11:15 AM


Re: Summary execution
This displays little effort at responding to what was actually said (e.g., Theodoric didn't say that police officers everywhere target brown and black people) , or at getting the facts straight (e.g., Isiah Murrietta-Golding was not a murder suspect), or at offering relevant arguments (running away is not a capital offense). Most of it is misrepresentation and misdirection.

Hyroglyphx writes:

In terms of the legality, it was lawful.

Isiah was running away while trying to hold his pants up. It was murder. The police know they escape being held responsible by saying they felt threatened, so that's what they always say. It's time to end this charade.

How much do you think will be paid out this time? I'm thinking around $10 million. Here are updates on some of the other murders reported in this thread:

  • No word yet on any lawsuits in the death of Atatiana Jefferson, but it's probably too soon.

  • The civil rights lawsuit regarding the death of Anthony Hill was dismissed, but the civil lawsuit against the police officer who killed him (found guilty of aggravated assault and lying) is still pending.

  • The civil case against the city of Dallas in the death of Botham Jean has a dismissal claim being reviewed.

  • The civil case filed against the federal government in the death of Bijan Ghaisar by park police is asking $15 million.

  • No civil case can go forward in the death of De'Von Bailey at the hands of Colorado Springs police because of an ongoing FBI investigation.

  • There are no recent updates in the $20 million wrongful death lawsuit in the death of actress Vanessa Marquez.

  • Los Angeles has agreed to pay $3 million to the family of Armando Garcia who was killed when police fired at a pit bull.

  • No lawsuit is likely to be filed in the death of Margarita Brooks, killed when an officer shot at her dog, because Brooks' father is the town's fire captain.

  • The family of Hanna Williams is seeking $25 million in damages from Fullerton, but given the facts of the case a payout of any significance seems unlikely. Hanna did aim what looked like a gun (it was a very authentic looking replica) at an officer.

  • There are no updates in the $10 million lawsuit of Dravon Ames against the city of Phoenix when police pulled their weapons and assaulted Ames after his 4-year old daughter stole a doll from a dollar store.

  • Justine Damond's family accepted a $20 million settlement from Minneapolis.

--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 327 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2019 11:15 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-26-2019 10:46 PM Percy has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 330 of 476 (865530)
10-26-2019 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by Theodoric
10-26-2019 2:38 PM


Re: Summary execution
I wasn't going to even respond as you continue your practice of being a dishonest debater and misrepresent what people actually say. That you actually post what I wrote before you misrepresent it makes it more stunning.

I aim to please. I'm glad I was able to exceed your expectations.

This just continues to show brown and black people that they need to do everything they can to evade police, because they will continue to be shot and killed for spurious and specious reasons.

Thank you for clarifying exactly what I said -- that you are under the fucktarded belief that police officers intentionally and savagely execute brown and black people for the sake of their brownness and blackness.

Not sure where you got this from. He was wanted for questioning about a murder, but I do not see anywhere that he was a "murder suspect". That doesnt matter anyway. No one is allowed to summarily execute someone because they are a murder subject. Not sure what this fact was supposed to prove?

Facts taken in conjunction matter.... which is why I outlined them step by step, so that when conjoined it paints the clearest picture possible. You just didn't know any of those facts because you were too busy jacking off to a liberal rag that mangled the facts to know any different. So what you're left with is more misguided notions about how and why he died.

Running from a cop is not a capital offense. Again not sure what you think this shows or how it exonerates the cop?

That's right, running away from the cops alone is not a capital offense. However, facts conjoined together change the dynamic: Being wanted for murder, while grabbing your waistband, while fleeing from police, while jumping the fence to a preschool constitutes the fleeing felon defense.

Not sure why this is a capital offense. If a cop pulls a car over and a suspect starts reaching into his jacket, should they be shot? That seems to be what you are advocating. Please tell me why that would be different. There is no sense addressing the other facts. Just more of the same.

They should have a gun pulled on them at the very least. And if you don't know why, there's about a hundred videos online that explains why.

Again you misrepresent what I actually posted. These facts were in the article I linked to. There was no omission. If I was trying to hide those facts I would not have linked to the article. Not sure why you think this is a big gotcha. None of those facts change the argument I made. Also, again you are misrepresenting my argument. I never made any comment about black and brown people being executed everywhere. If all you have is strawman arguments maybe you should consider someplace else to hangout online.

Have the balls to at least back up your bullshit. You made the assertion that this kid was shot because he was brown. You painted the bleakest picture possible without offering any context. You dishonestly offered: 16 year old, brown, shot in the back while running away. I'm sorry, what else is left to deduce? You opened the door, all I did was walk in.

I don't think I posted anything about legality. How about you try to address what I posted and not strawman arguments.

Then why post it at all? Its done. It was investigated and cleared. You obviously are under the belief that the pretense was premeditated murder of a brown kid. So defend it.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by Theodoric, posted 10-26-2019 2:38 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 334 by Percy, posted 10-27-2019 8:52 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 337 by Theodoric, posted 10-27-2019 12:02 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020