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Author Topic:   Police Shootings
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 586 of 607 (882638)
10-02-2020 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 585 by Percy
10-02-2020 2:42 PM


Re: Protests
Your list is incomplete, you forgot systemic racism.

That would be the second choice.

So *I* have implicit biases, but police officers don't?

I'm just pointing a mirror at your own arguments.

You are again putting words in my mouth. I did not say that the head of the Minneapolis police union represented all or most police. You implied there were extremely few defenders of Derek Chauvin, so I named a very significant one.

That's because there are very few. The original point is that not all police officers de facto defend all police actions, to include some of the more controversial ones. It is a dangerous proposition to remove people's self-agency and viewing them as an homologous unit.

And here's an article about Facebook removing groups supporting Chauvin: Inside the Facebook groups that support Derek Chauvin

All social media platforms are really good at censoring unpopular opinions.

Why don't you reply to my actual position? I believe there is systemic societal racism in this country. You, me and the police are all members of this society. It will take hard work to a) protect the subjects of societal racism from it; b) eliminate societal racism.

And I think that certain interest groups fan the flames of discord often to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Racism was at an all-time low in this country and these latest incarnations are only serving to destroy what progress was made. The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 585 by Percy, posted 10-02-2020 2:42 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 587 by xongsmith, posted 10-02-2020 4:41 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 588 by Percy, posted 10-02-2020 6:48 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1990
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.4


(3)
Message 587 of 607 (882639)
10-02-2020 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 586 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2020 3:44 PM


Re: racism in this country
Hyro writes:

Racism was at an all-time low in this country and these latest incarnations are only serving to destroy what progress was made. The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days.

i think those of us who are white should STFU and let's ask POC what they think.
same with sexism.

of course those of us in a privileged group are going paint a rosier picture than what it is.


"I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2020 3:44 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 589 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2020 2:47 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 588 of 607 (882640)
10-02-2020 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 586 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2020 3:44 PM


Re: Protests
Hyroglyphx writes:

Your list is incomplete, you forgot systemic racism.

That would be the second choice.

No, that would not be the second choice. Systemic racism is not "minorities...being systematically framed for crimes committed by white people." Just for a couple examples, "driving while black" and "hanging out while black" are not crimes committed by white people that blacks get arrested for.

You're not even trying. You haven't even bothered to inform yourself what systemic racism is, yet you're trying to discuss it anyway.

So *I* have implicit biases, but police officers don't?

I'm just pointing a mirror at your own arguments.

Not that anyone can tell.

You are again putting words in my mouth. I did not say that the head of the Minneapolis police union represented all or most police. You implied there were extremely few defenders of Derek Chauvin, so I named a very significant one.

That's because there are very few. The original point is that not all police officers de facto defend all police actions,...

You are defending an argument not made. If the only arguments you can rebut are ones you make up yourself, why are even bothering? It isn't like what your'e doing isn't incredibly obvious.

You claimed vanishingly few police officers support Chauvin, emphasizing your pont by sarcastically saying that there must be around six in the whole country.

It is a dangerous proposition to remove people's self-agency and viewing them as an homologous unit.

"Homologous unit"? Did you mean "homogenous unit?" At least that would make sense, even though it's just more deflection.

And here's an article about Facebook removing groups supporting Chauvin: Inside the Facebook groups that support Derek Chauvin

All social media platforms are really good at censoring unpopular opinions.

By conceding people supporting Chauvin are being censored, you implicitly admit they exist.

Why don't you reply to my actual position? I believe there is systemic societal racism in this country. You, me and the police are all members of this society. It will take hard work to a) protect the subjects of societal racism from it; b) eliminate societal racism.

And I think that certain interest groups fan the flames of discord often to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Racism was at an all-time low in this country and these latest incarnations are only serving to destroy what progress was made. The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days.

Translating your words: Things were much better before blacks got so uppity.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 586 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2020 3:44 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 590 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2020 3:07 PM Percy has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 589 of 607 (882657)
10-03-2020 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 587 by xongsmith
10-02-2020 4:41 PM


Re: racism in this country
i think those of us who are white should STFU and let's ask POC what they think. same with sexism.

Because people of color don't always agree with one another... Because women don't always agree with one another... Because all people have the inherent right to express an opinion; not just people with melanin and people with vaginas. I guess equality isn't your thing.... You think self-subjugation, self-flagellation, self-effacement, and self-immolation is the only way to pay for the sins of the father and the father's father, the father's-father's-father, and so on.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 587 by xongsmith, posted 10-02-2020 4:41 PM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 591 by Percy, posted 10-04-2020 10:55 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 590 of 607 (882660)
10-03-2020 3:07 PM
Reply to: Message 588 by Percy
10-02-2020 6:48 PM


Re: Protests
No, that would not be the second choice. Systemic racism is not "minorities...being systematically framed for crimes committed by white people." Just for a couple examples, "driving while black" and "hanging out while black" are not crimes committed by white people that blacks get arrested for.

Those aren't crimes at all. You actually have to have an arrestable offense to be arrested. What you are referring to is pretext stops (cop using any offense to legitimize a stop so (s)he can look for something bigger). If the stats are in relation to why there is a disparity in arrests among different racial groups then my framing of possible choices is entirely accurate.

You are defending an argument not made. If the only arguments you can rebut are ones you make up yourself, why are even bothering? It isn't like what your'e doing isn't incredibly obvious.

You claimed vanishingly few police officers support Chauvin, emphasizing your pont by sarcastically saying that there must be around six in the whole country.

You seem to think that many officers defend Chauvin when they don't. Its a dishonest presentation. So I pointed out that you are using extreme outliers to represent the middle when it isn't reflective. Its not that I'm defending positions not made, its that you shift the goalposts whenever you need to backtrack. You do it constantly.

"Homologous unit"? Did you mean "homogenous unit?" At least that would make sense, even though it's just more deflection.

Homologous: "Corresponding or similar in position, value, structure, or function."

And here's an article about Facebook removing groups supporting Chauvin: Inside the Facebook groups that support Derek Chauvin
All social media platforms are really good at censoring unpopular opinions.

By conceding people supporting Chauvin are being censored, you implicitly admit they exist.

Yes, there are Chauvin apologists.... Statistically there all but would have to. I am saying that the number is nevertheless is an exceedingly small fraction when compared to the number of people who believed they witnessed a murder, as do I.

quote:
And I think that certain interest groups fan the flames of discord often to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Racism was at an all-time low in this country and these latest incarnations are only serving to destroy what progress was made. The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days.

Translating your words: Things were much better before blacks got so uppity.

No, apparently that is your internalized racism, Percy. I said "interest groups," not racial groups. I'm referring to the corporate interests that are funding groups to make it appear as if its some grassroots effort. Its a social engineering experiment. The purpose is to change the perception of America to such a degree that it politically and socially shifts towards the political left.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 588 by Percy, posted 10-02-2020 6:48 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 592 by Percy, posted 10-04-2020 11:55 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 591 of 607 (882671)
10-04-2020 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 589 by Hyroglyphx
10-03-2020 2:47 PM


Re: racism in this country
Don't you remember your Who do you think I am? thread? Why are you doing this to yourself again?

Hyroglyphx writes:

i think those of us who are white should STFU and let's ask POC what they think. same with sexism.

Because people of color don't always agree with one another...

Of course POC don't always agree. There's never 100% unanimity about anything in any large group. But more than 80% of black Americans support BLM.

Because women don't always agree with one another...

Yet another bad example, you're on a roll. 60% of woman support abortion.

Because all people have the inherent right to express an opinion;

Why are you arguing against positions no one's advocating? You have racist views, and everyone supports your right to state and defend those views. But there is no cloak of immunity from criticism of those views.

I guess equality isn't your thing....

I guess accuracy, honesty and integrity isn't your thing.

You think self-subjugation, self-flagellation, self-effacement, and self-immolation is the only way to pay for the sins of the father and the father's father, the father's-father's-father, and so on.

It isn't possible to compensate past sufferers of racism. Ending racism would be the best compensation going forward, but that doesn't seem within the realm of possibility, so that leaves monetary and legal compensation.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 589 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2020 2:47 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 594 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-04-2020 2:23 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 592 of 607 (882672)
10-04-2020 11:55 AM
Reply to: Message 590 by Hyroglyphx
10-03-2020 3:07 PM


Re: Protests
Hyroglyphx writes:

No, that would not be the second choice. Systemic racism is not "minorities...being systematically framed for crimes committed by white people." Just for a couple examples, "driving while black" and "hanging out while black" are not crimes committed by white people that blacks get arrested for.

Those aren't crimes at all. You actually have to have an arrestable offense to be arrested.

You're close. All that's needed is for a law enforcement officer to *claim* you committed an arrestable offense.

What you are referring to is pretext stops (cop using any offense to legitimize a stop so (s)he can look for something bigger).

Give them whatever name you like. As far as moving violations, all a law enforcement officer has to do is get behind a driver and wait for them to fail to stay precisely within their lane or change lanes without signaling or follow the car in front too closely or fail to signal a turn or fail to yield properly or have a partially obscured plate or any number of other things. Why do law enforcement officers carry out pretextual traffic stops disproportionally more often with black drivers than white?

If the stats are in relation to why there is a disparity in arrests among different racial groups then my framing of possible choices is entirely accurate.

Defining systemic racism as the arrest of blacks for crimes committed by whites is as entirely inaccurate as it ever was. Why are you arguing a lost cause? Statistics unambiguously show that blacks and latinos are pulled over disproportionally.

You are defending an argument not made. If the only arguments you can rebut are ones you make up yourself, why are even bothering? It isn't like what your'e doing isn't incredibly obvious.

You claimed vanishingly few police officers support Chauvin, emphasizing your pont by sarcastically saying that there must be around six in the whole country.

You seem to think that many officers defend Chauvin when they don't. Its a dishonest presentation.

You seem congenitally unable to respond to arguments actually made, instead putting easy to rebut arguments in people's mouths. In Message 530 you said:

You also have to understand the resentment that all police officers have for Derek Chauvin.

Later in Message 571 you said:

Really??? I’ve never met even one Chauvin apologist let alone heard of one. Are you referring to all of 6 people nationwide?

But support for Chauvin within law enforcement is greater than that.

So I pointed out that you are using extreme outliers to represent the middle when it isn't reflective.

The head of the Minneapolis police union is not an extreme outlier.

Its not that I'm defending positions not made, its that you shift the goalposts whenever you need to backtrack. You do it constantly.

You're becoming Trumpier and Trumpier, now accusing others of what you're doing yourself.

"Homologous unit"? Did you mean "homogenous unit?" At least that would make sense, even though it's just more deflection.

Homologous: "Corresponding or similar in position, value, structure, or function."

"Homologous" would apply when comparing two or more entities, e.g., "homologous units". With only a single entity you would use "homogenous", e.g., "homogenous unit."

And here's an article about Facebook removing groups supporting Chauvin: Inside the Facebook groups that support Derek Chauvin

All social media platforms are really good at censoring unpopular opinions.

Actually, they're really bad at it. For instance, they're now censoring any expressions of hope that Trump does not recover from covid-19, but there was no censoring of death threats against Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib?

By conceding people supporting Chauvin are being censored, you implicitly admit they exist.

Yes, there are Chauvin apologists....

Oh, of course, you said there were no Chauvin *supporters*, because they're actually *apologists*, which is completely different.

Statistically there all but would have to. I am saying that the number is nevertheless is an exceedingly small fraction when compared to the number of people who believed they witnessed a murder, as do I.

There is no evidence quantifying the degree of support for Chauvin amongst law enforcement, but I doubt it is a "small fraction." My guess would be that it's within the 10-30% range. Certainly your original claim that "all officers" resent Chauvin was incorrect.

And I think that certain interest groups fan the flames of discord often to create a self-fulfilling prophecy. Racism was at an all-time low in this country and these latest incarnations are only serving to destroy what progress was made. The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days.

Translating your words: Things were much better before blacks got so uppity.

No, apparently that is your internalized racism, Percy.

Once again you're accusing others of what you yourself are doing. Are you sure you're not a Trump supporter?

I said "interest groups," not racial groups. I'm referring to the corporate interests that are funding groups to make it appear as if it's some grassroots effort. It's a social engineering experiment. The purpose is to change the perception of America to such a degree that it politically and socially shifts towards the political left.

Trump likes conspiracy theories, too.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 590 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2020 3:07 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 593 by dwise1, posted 10-04-2020 12:05 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 596 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2020 5:19 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4352
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 593 of 607 (882673)
10-04-2020 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 592 by Percy
10-04-2020 11:55 AM


Re: Protests
Well, here's a comparison question. After having shot three people, killing two of them, a fully armed Kyle Rittenhouse (with an AR-15 style assault rifle slung in a ready position) walked calmly past several policemen without being challenged even once (to my knowledge).

If he were black, how far do you think he would have gotten? And how likely that he would have been killed?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by Percy, posted 10-04-2020 11:55 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 594 of 607 (882676)
10-04-2020 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 591 by Percy
10-04-2020 10:55 AM


Re: racism in this country
Don't you remember your Who do you think I am? thread? Why are you doing this to yourself again?

What is “this?”

80% of Black Americans support BLM

Polling a country as large in the US is bullshit artistry, but I do think it is more plausible that the majority of black Americans would support BLM. That is because black lives do matter... but the group and the concept are two different things altogether. If black lives mattered the way they ought to then BLM would be protesting in the Southside of Chicago when record numbers of black
Americans are killed in droves, not by white police officers, but by other black Americans.

If you or anyone from BLM honestly thinks that white officers en masse are systematically trying to find ways to kill People of Color, then you are just as delusional as these Q-Anon morons
.

Yet another bad example, you're on a roll. 60% of woman support abortion

Who mentioned anything about abortion besides you? I said that many women reject the term and ethos behind feminism. Do you think that’s because they want to be subjugated by the patriarchy or do you think it’s because being a feminist is widely open to interpretation as to what that means?

You have racist views, and everyone supports your right to state and defend those views. But there is no cloak of immunity from criticism of those views.

Nice slander and character assassination. Name a SINGLE thing that I’ve ever stated that is racist.

It isn't possible to compensate past sufferers of racism. Ending racism would be the best compensation going forward, but that doesn't seem within the realm of possibility, so that leaves monetary and legal compensation.

Oh yeah, as we all know as soon as a lump sum is paid out that’ll be the end of it. Let me count the ways it will accomplish nothing. Racism is alive because Democrats keep that shit on life support in exchange for votes. The Left has shackled and crippled the black man under the guise of being his friend, but they’re divisive snakes. Malcolm X was right about white liberals....


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 591 by Percy, posted 10-04-2020 10:55 AM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 595 by Percy, posted 10-05-2020 4:53 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 595 of 607 (882695)
10-05-2020 4:53 PM
Reply to: Message 594 by Hyroglyphx
10-04-2020 2:23 PM


Re: racism in this country
Hyroglyphx writes:

Don't you remember your Who do you think I am? thread? Why are you doing this to yourself again?

What is “this?”

"This" is denying that you hold views you obviously hold.

80% of Black Americans support BLM

Polling a country as large in the US is bullshit artistry,...

You're ignorance of statistics remains appalling. Guess how many people you have to randomly poll in a population of a million to have 95% confidence in the result? The answer is around 2000 (I forget the exact number).

Now guess how many people you have to randomly poll in a population of a 325 million to have 95% confidence in the result? The answer, unintuitively to you, no doubt, is again around 2000.

The key requirement for this to be true is that sampling be random, but the important point is that the sample size does not need to increase with increasing size of the nation. As long as the "randomly" requirement is satisfied, it is no more difficult to poll Costa Rica (population 5 million) than France (population 67 million)

If black lives mattered the way they ought to then BLM would be protesting in the Southside of Chicago when record numbers of black Americans are killed in droves, not by white police officers, but by other black Americans.

Chicago's homicide problems are unrelated to law enforcement's victimization of the black community on a nationwide scale.

If you or anyone from BLM honestly thinks that white officers en masse are systematically trying to find ways to kill People of Color, then you are just as delusional as these Q-Anon morons.

You're confusing two completely different words, "systemic" and "systematic". Victimization of minorities in the US is due to *systemic racism*, not systematic racism.

Yet another bad example, you're on a roll. 60% of woman support abortion

Who mentioned anything about abortion besides you? I said that many women reject the term and ethos behind feminism.

Abortion rights is just the feminist issue I chose for illustration. A majority of women in the US support feminist positions on such issues as abortion rights, equal opportunity, violence agains women, etc.

Do you think that’s because they want to be subjugated by the patriarchy or do you think it’s because being a feminist is widely open to interpretation as to what that means?

To you feminism is ambiguous and open to interpretation?

You have racist views, and everyone supports your right to state and defend those views. But there is no cloak of immunity from criticism of those views.

Nice slander and character assassination. Name a SINGLE thing that I’ve ever stated that is racist.

Much of your writing related to race is racist, for instance, "The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days," and further on in this post where you say, "Racism is alive because Democrats keep that shit on life support in exchange for votes."

It isn't possible to compensate past sufferers of racism. Ending racism would be the best compensation going forward, but that doesn't seem within the realm of possibility, so that leaves monetary and legal compensation.

Oh yeah, as we all know as soon as a lump sum is paid out that’ll be the end of it.

Of course monetary payments won't end racism. You just quoted me saying exactly that, that ending racism "doesn't seem within the realm of possibility."

Let me count the ways it will accomplish nothing.

It will compensate victims.

Racism is alive because Democrats keep that shit on life support in exchange for votes.

Calling attention to and advocating compensation for racism is what keeps it alive? You're really claiming that?

The Left has shackled and crippled the black man under the guise of being his friend, but they’re divisive snakes. Malcolm X was right about white liberals...

So it isn't racism that keeps the black man down but efforts to mitigate it?

It's pretty common for racists to deny they're racist. After all, that's what your hero does (yeah, we know, you also deny he's your hero).

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 594 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-04-2020 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 597 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-06-2020 12:17 AM Percy has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 596 of 607 (882696)
10-05-2020 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 592 by Percy
10-04-2020 11:55 AM


Re: Protests
You're close. All that's needed is for a law enforcement officer to *claim* you committed an arrestable offense.

A probable cause affidavit has to be presented to a magistrate and (s)he either finds probable cause or does not. That statement is given under oath and if found to be perjuring oneself results in a Brady Letter which is pretty much is a death sentence for a law enforcement officer. With all interactions being recorded on body cam and an in-car camera system means that lying about something is that much more harder to do.

Give them whatever name you like. As far as moving violations, all a law enforcement officer has to do is get behind a driver and wait for them to fail to stay precisely within their lane or change lanes without signaling or follow the car in front too closely or fail to signal a turn or fail to yield properly or have a partially obscured plate or any number of other things. Why do law enforcement officers carry out pretextual traffic stops disproportionally more often with black drivers than white?

Probably because crime rates statistically tend to be higher in black neighborhoods which results in a higher amount of police saturation. The higher the police presence in a specific area results in more interaction with the community being policed.

Defining systemic racism as the arrest of blacks for crimes committed by whites is as entirely inaccurate as it ever was. Why are you arguing a lost cause? Statistics unambiguously show that blacks and latinos are pulled over disproportionally.

That's not necessarily indicative of racism. For one thing its difficult to see inside the interior of a vehicle, especially at night, in which to definitively know the race of the driver. Quite often predominantly poorer neighborhoods tend to have a much higher volume of crime thus resulting in a saturation of the area to curb the crime. Very often those neighborhoods tend to be black or latino neighborhoods... but not always. There are areas of many towns that have a higher number of poor whites where the crime rate is much higher due to something like heavy methamphetamine or heroin use. Those areas are also heavily saturated because rates of crime are higher, also resulting in increased traffic stops simply by virtue that they are more present in these areas and therefore see the violations more often than they would in a neighborhood that has exceedingly small amounts of crime.

Poverty and crime have a strong correlation. We could argue on if its a chicken and egg problem, but that much should be agreed upon given the stats that overwhelmingly support the conclusion.

One of the issues with some of the arguments posed by BLM is that most often fails to address is that black perpetrators disproportionately effect black victims. Statistically that is absolutely corroborated from city to city. So for however much you may think police are hurting black people they assist black communities three times as much. Why isn't that discussed? Ah, because it doesn't neatly fit into the narrative.

The head of the Minneapolis police union is not an extreme outlier.

Yes, he is! First of all he's not objective because Chauvin is a donor, they're probably friends, and ONE person can NEVER represent the middle when it comes to hundreds of thousands. You know how statistics work, Percy. Don't be intellectually lazy.

You're becoming Trumpier and Trumpier, now accusing others of what you're doing yourself.

And what precisely is that?

Actually, they're really bad at it. For instance, they're now censoring any expressions of hope that Trump does not recover from covid-19, but there was no censoring of death threats against Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, Ilhan Omar, Ayanna Pressley and Rashida Tlaib?

All social media platforms are de-platforming users that expressly convey violence as it is a direct violation of their terms and conditions. You know as well as I do that ALL social media platforms are run by and operated by left-leaning people.

Oh, of course, you said there were no Chauvin *supporters*, because they're actually *apologists*, which is completely different.

Completely different?!?!

a•pol•o•gist ə-pŏl′ə-jĭst►
n. A person who argues in defense or justification of something, such as a doctrine, policy, or institution.
n. One who speaks or writes in defense of anything; one who champions a person or a cause, whether in public address or by literary means; one who makes an apology or defense.

sup•port•er sə-pôr′tər►
n. One that supports, as a structural member of a building.
n. One who promotes or advocates; an adherent.

You're arguing semantics here...

There is no evidence quantifying the degree of support for Chauvin amongst law enforcement, but I doubt it is a "small fraction." My guess would be that it's within the 10-30% range. Certainly your original claim that "all officers" resent Chauvin was incorrect.

In light of some recent revelations I think the numbers are starting to get higher in terms of exonerating him... which would be catastrophic. So while I would agree that they are marginally higher than before that the overwhelming consensus is that what Chauvin did to that man was absolutely disgusting.

Are you sure that you aren't a Trump supporter?

Positive. Just because Trump and I have some overlap doesn't make me a supporter of his. Oh, look at that, you and Hitler both have an affection for dogs... Guess that means you're a Nazi sympathizer. I can play Godwin's Law too....

Trump likes conspiracy theories, too.

Don't be naive, there is open monetary support from very large corporations. Think of the logistics necessary for Antifa and BLM to night after night after night attack cities like Portland and Seattle for months and months and months.... You really think that can be sustainable and hold down a job? Not on your life. This is being funded surreptitiously by deep pockets.

When your strategy demands paid protest, we organize and bring it to life.

Hire Demonstrators for PR Events and More

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 592 by Percy, posted 10-04-2020 11:55 AM Percy has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 597 of 607 (882708)
10-06-2020 12:17 AM
Reply to: Message 595 by Percy
10-05-2020 4:53 PM


Re: racism in this country
"This" is denying that you hold views you obviously hold.

By virtue of contrast and comparison, if the only way one can prove their non-racism is only through extreme patronage and self-effacement as their only hope for salvation, then of course I am going to look like David Duke. The bar for what constitutes racism in today's cancel culture is so low that everything qualifies as such. That's your failing, not mine.

You're ignorance of statistics remains appalling. Guess how many people you have to randomly poll in a population of a million to have 95% confidence in the result? The answer is around 2000 (I forget the exact number).

Now guess how many people you have to randomly poll in a population of a 325 million to have 95% confidence in the result? The answer, unintuitively to you, no doubt, is again around 2000.

Haha, then I guess that 5% non-confidence for Trump beating Hilary Clinton was quite the anomaly. Polls in the US cannot be trusted because the results themselves have a tendency to manufacture desired results. Sample size. Sample population. How the poll questions are phrased... All of that factors in. And what difference does it make or should it make to YOU what someone else thinks?

Chicago's homicide problems are unrelated to law enforcement's victimization of the black community on a nationwide scale.

Yeah, exactly! And guess who kills far and away more black people... white police officers or other black people? If BLM was an honest organization then black lives would matter 100% of the time. Obfuscate all you'd like... the facts speak for themselves.

You're confusing two completely different words, "systemic" and "systematic". Victimization of minorities in the US is due to *systemic racism*, not systematic racism.

I'm curious to know your thoughts on police departments that have at least 50% or higher racial make-up of blacks or hispanics in their departments when it comes to policing. Atlanta PD, Detroit PD, etc for departments with a high number of black officers or departments in California or South Florida that have high numbers of hispanic officers... Do they care about race or do they just worry about crime regardless of who is committing it?

Abortion rights is just the feminist issue I chose for illustration. A majority of women in the US support feminist positions on such issues as abortion rights, equal opportunity, violence agains women, etc.

Right, but so many women reject the term "feminism." Why do you suppose that is? Hint: its the same reason a lot black Americans reject BLM.... Because a movement isn't always reflective of the ethos they purport.

To you feminism is ambiguous and open to interpretation?

Absolutely.

Much of your writing related to race is racist, for instance, "The metric for what qualifies as racist has a hair-trigger these days," and further on in this post where you say, "Racism is alive because Democrats keep that shit on life support in exchange for votes."

LOL, yeah, and??? How does that equal me thinking one race is inherently superior to another?

Of course monetary payments won't end racism. You just quoted me saying exactly that, that ending racism "doesn't seem within the realm of possibility."

You also said its a good start, so how will it be a good start?

Calling attention to and advocating compensation for racism is what keeps it alive? You're really claiming that?

YES! For a group that talks so much about equality, the Democrat Party highlights racial division in order to keep people angry. They want to portray themselves as the savior of black people when in reality they have consistently failed the black man for 50 fucking years! Every single Democrat run shit hole has buried the black man even further when he cries out for true liberation.

So it isn't racism that keeps the black man down but efforts to mitigate it?

But you aren't helping it, you keep it alive by stoking flames.

It's pretty common for racists to deny they're racist. After all, that's what your hero does (yeah, we know, you also deny he's your hero).

Its not entirely your fault, you've been led down this path to believe that anyone that thinks differently from you is:

1. a racist
2. a Trump supporter

Maybe one day you'll be able to think for yourself and stop relying social cues provided from your masters. They've got you right in their back pocket; hook, line and sinker.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 595 by Percy, posted 10-05-2020 4:53 PM Percy has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19879
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 598 of 607 (882712)
10-06-2020 8:22 AM


Police Officer Murders Jonathan Price
Yesterday Wolfe City, Texas, police officer Shaun David Lucas, who is white, was arrested for the Saturday murder of Jonathan Price, who is black. Price had helped break up a domestic dispute which was largely over when officer Lucas arrived and tried to arrest Price. Price walked away. Lucas TASER'd him then fatally shot him with his service revolver.

This fits under the category of "doing good deeds while black." I'll venture a guess that Wolfe City will pay out about $5 million. Lucas's arrest so soon after the murder argues that a murder conviction is perhaps possible, a great rarity.

Lucas is not a bad apple. He's a typical police officer with the same racial attitudes as much of the country, ones that cause people to dehumanize minorities thereby enabling and justifying their inhumane treatment.

Source: Police Officer Shaun David Lucas Arrested, Charged With Murder In Connection To Jonathan Price Slaying

--Percy


  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 599 of 607 (882738)
10-07-2020 3:04 PM


Selective Media Coverage
Do black lives matter when it comes to police officers? Is there national outrage when a black officer is attacked by a white suspect for absolutely no reason? Do national media outlets pump this across the airwaves non-stop in protest?

Does this highlight the kind of insane encounters police have to endure? Does it at least marginally explain why police tactically behave in ways not understood by the general public?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 600 by Taq, posted 10-15-2020 1:53 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8444
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 6.5


(1)
Message 600 of 607 (882789)
10-15-2020 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 599 by Hyroglyphx
10-07-2020 3:04 PM


Re: Selective Media Coverage
Hyroglyphx writes:

Do black lives matter when it comes to police officers?

If I run in a 5k supporting breast cancer research, does this mean I don't care about prostate cancer research? There is an implied ",too" at the end of "black lives matter".

Is there national outrage when a black officer is attacked by a white suspect for absolutely no reason?

You can be against both violence against cops and misuse of force by cops. Right now, there appears to be much less accountability for cops who misuse force which is what the unrest is about.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 599 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-07-2020 3:04 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 602 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2020 3:22 PM Taq has responded

  
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