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Member (Idle past 1426 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Religion or Science - How do they compare? | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
So, we are left with an invitation. Will we too believe? Will we be curious? Will we respond with trust?
Belief/trust is the opposite of curiosity, isn't it? That "invitation" sounds like, "Either come to our wedding or go bowling."An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
I don't like either bowling or weddings. Bowling isn't really that fulfilling. I had a good friend once. Both of us were really bad at bowling but we went a few times with groups of people. I would have gone anywhere with her, maybe even a wedding.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Remember that by definition religious "understanding" does not require nor even seek evidence in the way that science has to do.quote:In other words, "Park your understanding at the door," is pretty much the basis of faith. An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
I just pointed out that the Bible tells you to park your understanding at the door. What I am saying is that you cant expect evidence or the scientific method to corroborate your faith.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
What we have is shamans - e.g. Bible commentators - who are eager and willing to guide us. But they too are fallen. It makes no difference how perfect The Source is, as long as all of the interpreters are fallen. we have God who is omniscient and willing to guide us to the truthAn honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Faith writes:
It isn't Biblical. I appreciate being able to explain all those things in terms of fallenness. I'm not sure exactly why you object to it.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
But there were no lost abilities. Adam and Eve gained abilities (the knowledge of good and evil) and became more like God. In any case what we originally were meant to be shines through this doctrine....An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
God said it:
Apart from becoming more aware of the differences, how did they in any way become more like God?quote:Why do you need more than that? Phat writes:
All you will ever have is human stories and human ideas about God. What's your point? And do we even have a clue as to how God was? All we have are human stories.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
"Us" is the speaker,
so who is "us"?quote:- i.e. the Lord God - and whomsoever He was speaking to. The text implies that they were His equals. An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
Don't confuse literate with literal. But of course, your view of the Bible is neither. Only according to your illiterate way of reading it.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Why would you reject what the Book says in favour of what some goober says?
So because the book says so, you would conclude that at least in that case, God considered some audience somewhere as his equals??? Phat writes:
A religion that actually pays attention to its Book? You could start a whole new religion with that kind of thinking!An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
So you're saying that confusing literal with literate is a good thing? Wrong as usual.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Faith writes:
I said you shouldn't confuse literal with literate and you said I was wrong - suggesting that you think you should confuse them. Wrong as usual. You could at least try to simulate an intelligent reply.An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined: |
Phat writes:
Then why do today's goobers reject reality in deference to what the Bronze Age goobers wrote?
Because those were Bronze Age goobers who had limited knowledge of reality. Todays goobers have a better grasp of reality in most cases. Phat writes:
Our new understanding is that many of the events described in the Bible never happened - e.g. the resurrection.
There is no sin at revising the teachings in light of new understanding. Phat writes:
Exactly. Which is why our new understanding doesn't require Him. What good is a God if humans themselves can correct Him?An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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ringo Member (Idle past 433 days) Posts: 20940 From: frozen wasteland Joined:
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Phat writes:
Science rejects the idea of resurrection, period. You knew that, didn't you?
I see no evidence that mainstream science has rejected the resurrection. Phat writes:
Your claim was that modern apologists know better than the Bronze Age Bible authors. This isn't about me; it's about your apologist sources. They have essentially apologized God out of the equation.
ringo writes:
Perhaps you don't. Which is why our new understanding doesn't require Him. Phat writes:
I could argue for an alien race that terra-formed our earth and influenced the development of everything in it. I don't think anything beyond that is remotely plausible. You can't present a coherent argument for the existence of God - you're always forced to fall back on belief - so what makes you think I could? What would really be cool is if you decided to be a real contrarian and argue for His existence for a change!An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo
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