Religion or Science - How do they compare?

There are no doubt some that do believe that they have absolute answers for everything. However, that isn’t really the norm for most believers. At its core religion is simply mankind’s attempts to understand the nature of an external intelligence that is responsible for our existence and then, what that means to our lives. I would agree that too much of religious activity has been about gaining power or about trying to figure out how we can get that external intelligence working for us.
As a Christian I’ll simply deal with the question from that perspective. The Bible itself is obviously a group of books which depicts a progressive revelation, with that part of the revelation climaxing in Jesus of Nazareth. Since the time of Jesus’ crucifixion and resurrection there have been countless people trying to work out what that should mean to us, with Paul being the first that we have a record of. I contend that mankind is continuing to gain a more focused understanding of God all the time.
Again as a Christian, I do question what people including preachers, theologians etc tell me and like every other Christian have come to my own conclusions. From my perspective the only one I know who has it all correct is me, but even then I continue to question where I might be wrong and make corrections. That sounds good, but from my observation I'd say that some scientists can be just as dogmatic as some theists. The misuse of either can be about controlling people. Science is sometimes used to discredit all religious belief, while religion is sometimes used to discredit scientific belief.
My religious beliefs suggest, as per my signature, that I should humbly love kindness, and act justly. It does not give me absolutes about how that applies to specific cases and leaves me free to make my own decisions of how that looks both generally and specifically. It isn't about control, but about a way of living my life that I have freely chosen. (That is not to say that I am very good at it.)
My Christian religion answers different questions than does my interest in science. I understand science as a natural theology, and I personally find that it is not only compatible but complementary to my Christian beliefs. There is nothing in science that I reject because of my religious beliefs.

You contend that there is no god but you have no actual evidence of that.
I understand the nature of God but what what we have written about Jesus. Sure, I can't prove the accuracy of the Gospel stories, but by understanding that Jesus presented the true nature of God and His model of how we are called to live our lives is something that makes sense of my life, and the world I live in. I am prepared to live my life as best I can adhering to his message that we are to love His creation sacrificially, and that is something that I am prepared to take on faith. ....as you make up your lack of faith.

OK, the theistic religions. I'm wondering what understanding that I have that opposes understanding. I simply said that it is obvious that The Bible shows an evolving understanding or a progressive revelation. I wasn't arguing that was evidence of its accuracy. I'm only saying that taken from a Christian perspective it is obvious. Of course we don't KNOW the truth. We all choose what we believe to be true. We can look at the world where the idea that sacrificial love is valued in a culture, the better the culture has done. Ultimately science can usually prove or disprove there ideas so it is easier to move on than it is with religion. However, as near as I can tell, there certainly are numerous theories in the field of QM that scientists vigorously disagree on and are pretty dogmatic in their beliefs.

It is a fact that we exist. It is a fact that ultimately there is a reason we exist. It is a fact that science has discerned processes by which life as we know it evolved. There is no discernible evidence that these processes were the result of other mindless processes going back to the point of the Big Bang. Therefore the rational default position is that we are the result of processes that are the result of pre-existing intelligence.

Sorry being so slow on getting back to you. Life seems to happen. I actually meant the former as there is an explanation of the cause of our existence. Either we are the result of a virtually infinite string of causes based on chance or we are the result of intelligence. As has been pointed out to me by atheists on this forum, (and I agree with them), there is no point in talking about time before the BB or when time=o because it is a meaningless question. However you insist that you have to go back before time=0 to ask the question of who created God.
Why when some physicists claim that our universe is infinite, then can we not also accept the possibility of there being an infinite intelligence that is responsible for the fact that we exist? I don’t think that religion pretends to answer the why but it does attempt to explain why just as science attempts to explain how. However, science uses physical evidence in its attempt to explain how, whereas religion uses recorded history and philosophy to explain why.

Just a thought on this. In many ways I agree with this but with a few caveats. It isn’t the bad things that Christianity has done, but the bad things that some people who wore the label Christian who have done some very bad things.Christianity is a man made religion as all religions are man made. It takes some things such as the life and teaching of Jesus as well as his death and resurrection as being historically true and then forming a theology around that.The core of Christianity is based on seeing Jesus as perfectly embodying the Word or Wisdom of God. Where it gets off track is when it starts understanding the Bible as being essentially dictated by God. The Bible contains all sorts of contradictory statements and actions. You cannot square Jesus’ love your enemies with people’s claims that Yahweh commanded them to commit genocide or public stoning. Either you have CHRISTianity or BIBLEianity. I have chosen Christianity, which in the context of the life and the world I live actually makes sense of it.I believe, (no matter how imperfectly I live it), that God thorough the CHRISTian faith calls me to live a life that is based on sacrificial love, as Jesus lived, or, put another way, to the life that my signature calls us to. The rest of it is all theology.

Then why are there so many contradictions in morality, history, timing etc. Yes God inspired people to write their stories and if read correctly He will speak knowledge and wisdom to us through this library of 66 books. Read literally as you do then God is god of situational ethics and hypocrisy, telling us that killing is wrong but then having Him either directly slaughtering communities, or even worse, ordering His followers to commit genocide. That is what you get when you make a false idol out of the Bible, and follow it even when it directly opposes the life and message of Jesus. God doesn’t punish criminals — people do. You however are prepared to worship a god who sanctions public stoning of children and the genocide of whole communities. Not for me thank you very much. Certainly we should do all we can to protect the innocent. As far as capital punishment is concerned it requires that we have some individual take the life of another human being, while we sit at home with clean hands and an unclean heart. If you want to protect the lives of the innocent then I suggest that life imprisonment is just as effective and better for the nation.

When the Biblical writers use the term "Word of God" it is not referring to the Scriptures. It is referring to the Logos and can be also translated as the "wisdom" of God. In Genesis it metaphorically talks about God speaking the world into existence, (such as in God said let there be light etc. ) and so it is in reference to that. The "Word of God" put another way is the essence, the wisdom and the power of God when used in the Bible.It is also used by the writer of the Gospel of John when he sates that the "Word became flesh" in the person of Jesus. That is why as Christian we understand the true nature of God by looking at Jesus and not at an inerrant Bible.

The claim that God spoke to them, is not the same thing as when the term "Word of God" is used as a noun.

That statement is wrong on all levels. Firstl your idea of traditional Bible theologians would be those that support your understanding of how the Scriptures should be understood. We can go all the way back to traditional Bible theologians such as Augustine who would disagree with you.Also "God breathed" is not the same thing as God dictated. I agree that God breathes life into the Scriptures and that God reaches out to us through the Scriptures, but when you read it with your understanding you wind up with a perverted view of the nature of God as well as of His desire of how we should live our lives.

My point is that God as we see His Word, wisdom and nature embodied in Jesus would never have commanded public stonings. It is you that claims that God actually did command public stonings for minor transgressions along with having Him command genocide.It is the people that commanded public stoning in the name of God that are evil. It is you that says that God commanded public stonings thus declaring Him evil.My complaint against the death penalty is that it requires that some individual kill another human being when there is an alternative available, and how that will harden the heart of the executioner.I don't think it should be done at all but I also don't believe that we remain relatively untouched by the horror of an execution as we sit in our comfortable pews seeing justice as having been served, which is not saying that the executions should be done publicly.Also, public stoning was not just having the public witness the execution, but it involved the whole community going out and throwing rocks at some individual, (for things like picking up firewood on the sabbath), until they have painfully breathed their last.You believe that God commanded that to happen and yet you have the audacity to say that it is me who calls God evil.

Actually the Bible has a warning for those who claimed that God had told them to commit genocide and public stonings, as well as for people who understand the Bible as you do. This is from Isaiah 5:20.

quote:

---

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter

---

I'd suggest that it is that "still small voice of God", or in Christian terms his Holy Spirit that speaks to our heart mind and conscience through nature, holy books and other people in all aspects of life. I think we have to be careful when we talk about our actions that offer us eternal life. Firstly our actions are only a reflection of where are hearts find joy, and our actions don't necessarily reflect out hearts, particularly when you consider that we aren't all blessed with loving parents and peaceful cultures.I'd also add that when we talk about being saved, it isn't about getting our doctrine right, but about having our hearts set on a trajectory towards having hearts that love unselfishly, and with that given the job of reflecting God's love into His creation.

But that isn't how the term "the word of God" is used in the context we are talking about. The Word or Logos is much more than just God speaking to someone but it is the "Word", or again wisdom of God that has existed eternally. It is the "Word" that became flesh, (to quote the Gospel of John), in Jesus.

..and your mind is infallible? ...and you of course know what it really means.I can point to the Bible verses and you and you will say that it doesn't really mean what it says. Did Jesus really say that we should give away all that we own. Have you done that? Why aren't you out campaigning for public stoning. Here is a quote from Deuteronomy.

quote:

---

18 If someone has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, 19 his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. 20 They shall say to the elders, This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a glutton and a drunkard. 21 Then all the men of his town are to stone him to death. You must purge the evil from among you. All Israel will hear of it and be afraid.

---

If one of your kids were to come home drunk have you called on your neighbours to get together and stone him to death? You pick and choose and rationalize as everyone does.