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Author Topic:   The roots of Creation Science and Darwinism
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 24 of 89 (833091)
05-16-2018 5:25 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Astronomy
05-16-2018 4:43 PM


Astronomy writes:

If you are not atheist, then you are not my subject. My subjects are people who need to be saved from hell.

I'm an atheist. But you're not going to save me with this rabid crap.

Is this the best you've got?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Astronomy, posted 05-16-2018 4:43 PM Astronomy has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 36 of 89 (833162)
05-18-2018 2:52 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by ICANT
05-18-2018 12:49 AM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
ICANT writes:


Only one problem you did not present any evidence Dark Matter exist.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

In other words that is your Dark matter, which holds everything together.

Your problem is that the world is running out of ignorance. You could quite as easily made the same silly statement prior to the discovery of the Higgs Boson - and every previous discovery predicted by theory. This is the strength of science; it makes predictions and tests those predictions against reality.

You are only able to talk about dark matter because science has revealed it, and when there is an answer for you what then? You'll push onto trying to jemmy whatever science is working on next into a generic sentence in an ancient book as though it's some explanation of anything at all?

quote:
The Higgs boson is an elementary particle in the Standard Model of particle physics. First suspected to exist in the 1960s, it is the quantum excitation of the Higgs field,[6][7] a fundamental field of crucial importance to particle physics theory.[7] Unlike other known fields such as the electromagnetic field, it is scalar and also has a non-zero constant value in vacuum. The question of the existence of the Higgs field became the last unverified part of the Standard Model of particle physics, and for several decades, was considered "the central problem in particle physics".[8][9]

On 4 July 2012, the discovery of a new particle with a mass between 125 and 127 GeV/c2 was announced; physicists suspected that it was the Higgs boson.[11][12][13] Since then, the particle has been shown to behave, interact, and decay in many of the ways predicted for Higgs particles by the Standard Model, as well as having even parity and zero spin,[4][5] two fundamental attributes of a Higgs boson. This also means it is the first elementary scalar particle discovered in nature.[14]


Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 12:49 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 4:06 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 38 of 89 (833165)
05-18-2018 4:42 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by ICANT
05-18-2018 4:06 AM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
ICANT writes:

What has been revealed?

That there's more yet to be discovered and understood.

So based on an assumed fact you believe dark matter does exist.

I have no opinion on dark matter, let alone believe in it. If science said tomorrow it was all an arithmetic error I couldn't care less. I read with interest what those that are working in the area are thinking and discovering, that's all.

Like you, I have absolutely no idea whether dark matter exists or not or what it is. Also like you, when science finally understands what it is, I won't understand it either. I'll just find it interesting

That sound like religion to me.

Then you have no idea what science is or what it does. It's futile to make these false comparisons; we know and understand your motivation for wishing this to be true. But it obviously and demonstrably isn't.

I note you make no comment on the prediction and subsequent finding of the Higgs Boson. Inconvenient I guess; rather destroys your argument doesn't it?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 4:06 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 11:03 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 41 of 89 (833187)
05-18-2018 11:18 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by ICANT
05-18-2018 11:03 AM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
ICANT writes:

But the math is correct. Something is required to keep the universe from flying apart.

Good.

So scientist came up with an invisible nonluminous material that makes up 80% of the universe. They then named it Dark Matter or Dark Energy.

Yes, clever aren't they? They now start the process of understanding it.

I simply point out that the Bible recorded 2,000 years ago that God was what held the universe together and everything in it. You don't have to accept it or reject it. But you are free to do either, I just delivered the message.

Yes that was all you did; you pointed out that an ancient text claimed that god made everything. Thanks, we all know that. Sadly it explains nothing except that someone we don't know wrote something useless.

Now to get back to Higgs. What's different about science doing the sums and predicting a particle and then finding it and science doing the sums and going off to look for dark matter?

It seems that you have a model in your mind of god physically holding stuff together. I feel required to reject that concept until we can detect this particular god particle.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 11:03 AM ICANT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 12:52 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 45 of 89 (833211)
05-18-2018 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by ICANT
05-18-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
ICANT writes:

Lets see: no one has seen dark energy or dark matter. No one knows what it is made of. They just know that something that is needed to keep the universe at critical density is require and has dreamed up what they call dark energy and dark matter.

Yes, like I said, they're clever aren't they?

You have not seen God

And neither have you.

nor do you know what He is made of.

Well, the thing is, there's no evidence at all for him so....

All we know is we need something to keep the universe at critical density.

Nope. We know all sorts of things about our universe, including that everything we've ever discovered has a natural cause so this one will more than likely have one too.

How do you know God does not supply the energy and matter to produce a universe at critical density.

How do you know it wasn't a pink, universal unicorn?

When I was first introduce to the Higgs boson it was called the God particle. That was like the particle Hawking called an instanton in that when it existed it would create a universe like the one we live in.

Seems now it is regulated to being like any other particle just a little harder to find than many were.

Since they found what they called the Higgs, I haven't heard of any new universes.

You're still avoiding the question aren't you? The argument you make for dark matter is identical to the argument that could be made for the Higg's boson before it was discovered. Espite its name god was not found therein.

No Tangle I do not think my God has to go around holding the universe together physically. I believe He gave everything in the universe directions by natural laws that covers all those mundane jobs.

Fabulous, enjoy your belief. Meanwhile science will work it out.

Mankind is the only thing God created that has stopped doing what God created him to do.

Not so infallible then, eh?

Everything else continues on as programed.

Everything else? There I was thinking all this was all about us.

There are no flukes, or mistakes, everything happens for a purpose.

Any clue what that might be?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by ICANT, posted 05-18-2018 12:52 PM ICANT has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 1:45 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 47 of 89 (833226)
05-18-2018 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Astronomy
05-18-2018 1:45 PM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
Astronomy writes:

Tell me more about your idol called "pink unicorn". Is it omnipresent idol?

A bit, sometimes.

If yes, then why I can not see it in my home?

You have to believe.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 1:45 PM Astronomy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 3:24 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 50 of 89 (833230)
05-18-2018 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Astronomy
05-18-2018 3:24 PM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
Astronmy writes:

I repeat, is your idol omnipresent or not?

Sometimes. Depends.

Why I can not see it in my home?

Before you can see Him, you have to believe in Him.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 3:24 PM Astronomy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 3:44 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 52 of 89 (833254)
05-18-2018 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Astronomy
05-18-2018 3:44 PM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
Astronomy writes:

Do you believe in pink unicorn?


Of course not, I'm an aunicornist

Can it tell you, is it now omnipresent or not?

Usually

If it is your idol, then why it is not your God? If you do not believe in pink unicorn, then latter is debunked now.

If unicorn is omnipresent, then it has no body: thus, no corn. So, unicorn is debunked.

You will burn in everlasting hot compost. Such is the fate of the unbeliever.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 3:44 PM Astronomy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by jar, posted 05-18-2018 6:27 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 54 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 9:32 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 55 of 89 (833271)
05-19-2018 2:06 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Astronomy
05-18-2018 9:32 PM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
Astronomy writes:

If you are not believer in pink unicorn, then latter is debunked.


My non-belief in the Universal Pink Unicorn has no effect on its existence or otherwise.

I am believer in Jesus Christ. But you have pretended to be believer in pink unicorn. Is it your idol?

I have never pretended to believe in the UPU. Nor Jesus Christ. My idol is Susanne George.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Astronomy, posted 05-18-2018 9:32 PM Astronomy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Astronomy, posted 05-19-2018 6:26 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 57 of 89 (833277)
05-19-2018 6:55 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Astronomy
05-19-2018 6:26 AM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
Astronomy writes:

I am not believer in pink unicorn, and you are not. Then I have won this religious debate about pink unicorn. You have defended the pink unicorn, knowing for yourself, that it does not exist.

I don't belive in the UPU; but I don't know that it doesn't exist. And neither do you.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Astronomy, posted 05-19-2018 6:26 AM Astronomy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by Astronomy, posted 05-19-2018 7:50 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 60 of 89 (833282)
05-19-2018 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by Astronomy
05-19-2018 7:50 AM


Re: Re-Dark Matter
Astronomy writes:

Then you do say, that it is very likely, that pink unicorn, Barak Obama, the speaking head of Newton, and red dragon are under your bed now?

Nope. You are the only one saying that.

Have you understood the point being made yet?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Astronomy, posted 05-19-2018 7:50 AM Astronomy has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 71 of 89 (833332)
05-20-2018 3:08 AM
Reply to: Message 69 by Astronomy
05-19-2018 9:50 PM


Re: Spirits or Spiritual Forces.
Astronomy writes:

So, if the Bible "extremely weak evidence", then the stronghood of Bible evidence is different from absolute zero? Therefore, the Bible is evidence. The Scientific evidence. Correct?

The bible is evidence that some unknown person or persons wrote some stories a long time ago. Virtually none of it is supported by any corroborating evidence. You also have to ask what it is evidence of?

Tell me, what do you think the Book of Mormon is evidence of?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by Astronomy, posted 05-19-2018 9:50 PM Astronomy has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7068
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


(3)
Message 89 of 89 (833653)
05-24-2018 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Thugpreacha
05-24-2018 10:09 AM


Re: Spirits or Spiritual Forces.
Phat writes:

Concerning Creation Science. How does it differ from mainstream science?

Hohum, how many years here Phat and apparently learned nothing?

Creation science, like alternative medicine, has one unnecessary descriptor. If alternative medicine worked it would just be called medicine.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Thugpreacha, posted 05-24-2018 10:09 AM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

  
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