Understanding through Discussion


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Author Topic:   Motley Flood Thread (formerly Historical Science Mystification of Public)
jar
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Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 20 of 877 (833869)
05-27-2018 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
05-27-2018 12:53 PM


The public needs to earn respect (and also be willing to learn)
There is a thread already Faith that helps provide the very evidence you seek.


  1. The Landscape seen in this image:

  2. Capitan Reef

  3. Layered salt deposits separated by sediment layers

  4. The cross bedding seen in this picture

  5. The White Cliffs of Dover

  6. This fossil sand dune seen in this image:

  7. Half Dome:

  8. Banded Ironstone:

  9. Layered Erratic Rocks:

  10. The Layered Chalk Beds of Kansas:

These are examples of direct evidence of millions of years. They all exist. And so far no one has been able to explain their existence in any way other than very long periods of time and the same processes we see going on today.

You had a chance to present alternate explanations Faith; I created the thread just so you and others who believe like you could present your alternative models, mechanisms, methods, processes or procedures to explain the existence of the evidence but not one person has responded with anything other than song and dance and word salad.

You came; you bitched and you ran away.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 12:53 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:13 PM jar has responded

  
jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 29 of 877 (833881)
05-27-2018 4:31 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
05-27-2018 4:13 PM


You cannot earn respect by refusing to address reality.
Faith writes:

Any large formation made of sedimentary layers was formed by the Flood. I don't know how the reef was formed. Half Done wasn't formed by the Flood but by the volcanism after it. That's all you're getting from me.

Which, as expected, is NOTHING, NADA, ZILCH. That is not a model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that explains how any of those formations were created. Nor is there ANY evidence that volcanism played any part in either of the Biblical Flood myths.

Have you ever read the Bible Faith?

As expected, there is NO explanation from anyone supporting the nonsense called a Biblical Flood.


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
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Message 67 of 877 (833959)
05-28-2018 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Faith
05-28-2018 3:00 PM


Complaining is simply childish whining.
Faith writes:

This isn't about ordinary reasonable magazine publication standards, this is about preventing the reader from understanding something that would be easy enough to rectify. I don't think they are intentionally doing this, I just think they assume the information is as good as fact, as historical geology does anyway, and that nobody should complain.

That's yet another truly stupid post from you Faith.

You are free to whine but that will never accomplish anything.

OR...

you could present the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that would allow your flood to create the evidence seen in reality.

Yet you never, every present the model, mechanism, process or procedure that could create the evidence that exists in reality by means of some flood or in 6000 years.

The facts are that we have the fossils, the geology, the radiometric samples, the ordering AND we have the models, the mechanism, the methods, the processes and procedures that explain what exists in reality and all you have are two flood myths that are mutually exclusive and contradictory.

You ain't never gonna win when you got nuttin.


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 73 of 877 (833976)
05-28-2018 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by Faith
05-28-2018 3:24 PM


Another really stupid Post Faith.
Faith writes:

It's not about their audience, it's about how the whole scientific community presents this stuff to the public, as if it were set in stone that the Jurassic period existed and had such characteristics, as if this were revealed to them from heaven.

That has to be one of your best really stupid posts Faith.

Evidence revealed from heaven must always take second place to evidence revealed though reality.

Faith writes:

It's just typical historical science mystification: we say it, therefore it's absolutely true, therefore you must believe it.

No Faith, you do not have to believe any of it, you are free to remain ignorant.


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 91 of 877 (834021)
05-29-2018 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 89 by Faith
05-29-2018 10:44 AM


Re: Your second list
Faith writes:

Why don't you just put a banner up at the top of EvC saying

CREATIONISTS NOT WELCOME HERE.

That would be a lot more honest than "Understanding through discussion."

Maybe discussion is another thing you decide not to understand.

In a discussion you would post: "Here is the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that allowed the Biblical flood to create the aeolian sand dunes seen in the following picture."


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Replies to this message:
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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 98 of 877 (834037)
05-29-2018 4:59 PM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
05-29-2018 4:30 PM


Re: Your second list
Phat writes:

Perhaps she thinks that your proposed checklist of criteria is biased and not the only way to explain something.

What she thinks is irrelevant.

The fact is that she cannot provide a single possible model, method, mechanism, process or procedure to explain the reality that is the geology, paleontology, radiometric data, isotopic data, cultural data and other things that exist in the real world.


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 184 of 877 (834146)
05-31-2018 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Faith
05-31-2018 7:32 AM


Re: Still as weirded out by historical science as ever
Faith writes:

NOW I suppose it's because I know it is all false that it particularly annoys me.

But the conventional theories provide both the models, mechanisms, methods, processes and procedures that explain the reality that exists while you seem unable or unwilling to ever propose the models, mechanisms, methods, processes and procedures that explain how one of the Biblical Flood stories could create ANY of the evidence found in reality.

A few examples might help. How did your flood create these objects?


  1. The Landscape seen in this image:

  2. Capitan Reef

  3. Layered salt deposits separated by sediment layers

  4. The cross bedding seen in this picture

  5. The White Cliffs of Dover

  6. This fossil sand dune seen in this image:

  7. Half Dome:

  8. Banded Ironstone:

  9. Layered Erratic Rocks:

  10. The Layered Chalk Beds of Kansas:

So if you can find no way that your flood could create those ten examples how can you know the flood created anything or that there even was a flood?


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 187 of 877 (834150)
05-31-2018 9:36 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by edge
05-31-2018 9:23 AM


Re: Still as weirded out by historical science as ever
This series of slides might help her. It's pretty basic and addresses the Methods of Historic Science directly; none of which are to mystify the public and all of which are based on evidence that exists in reality.

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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
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Message 190 of 877 (834153)
05-31-2018 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 189 by Percy
05-31-2018 9:52 AM


the video also shows exactly how floods sort objectsfail
The video of the Tsunami also clearly shows how a flood sorts objects and it is NOT how we find the objects sorted in most of reality.

In fact the two scenarios are so different that it is immediately obvious to even a marginally trained eye whether what is seen was the result if some flood or rather simply long periods of time.


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jar
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From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 221 of 877 (834224)
06-01-2018 1:41 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by dwise1
06-01-2018 1:29 PM


Re: Lithostratigraphy and chronostratigraphy
The Haploid "H" would at least explain and clarify why A dame and Eve were hanging out together.

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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 264 of 877 (834274)
06-02-2018 1:48 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Faith
06-01-2018 9:31 PM


Re: Faith's sheet flow to stream flow epic fail
Faith writes:

I've referred to the example of the tablecloth trick of removing it without disturbing the objects on top of it.

Great.

Please provide the post where you explain the model, method, mechanism, process or procedure that will allow your imaginary flood to pull a sheet of rock out of layers of rock without leaving evidence?

Faith, your theories are just really really silly.


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 281 of 877 (834292)
06-02-2018 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 280 by edge
06-02-2018 4:11 PM


Re: Video on the formation of the Grand Canyon
Because erections get bigger as they get older?

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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 297 of 877 (834310)
06-03-2018 7:34 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Faith
06-03-2018 5:04 AM


How did it do dat??????????????
Faith writes:

Strata were laid down three miles deep or so by the Flood, two miles of it above what is now the Kaibab rim of the canyon.

What was the process, procedure, model, mechanism or method that allowed your flood to sort the strata as well as those things included in the strata in the order found in reality.


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jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 432 of 877 (834506)
06-07-2018 6:58 AM


An easy question for Faith:
How did the flood deposit material under already existing material without disturbing the older layer?

Faith, you keep making assertions that the flood did things but never explain how the flood did those things.

FACT: There are stone age sites all over the world and even pre-stone age sites.

FACT: Those sites existed before the flood is claimed to have happened.

FACT: None of those layers are more than a few tens of meters below the current surface.

FACT: All of those sites were are ground/surface level.

FACT: The evidence shows the site was at ground level at the time it was created by leaving evidence like fire pits and food remains and personal objects and man made objects.

FACT: All of those sites were buried by known observable processes.

Question: How could your flood deposit any material under an already existing layer without disturbing it?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Faith, posted 06-07-2018 9:14 AM jar has responded

  
jar
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Posts: 33439
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 437 of 877 (834512)
06-07-2018 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 433 by Faith
06-07-2018 9:14 AM


Re: An easy question for Faith: And as expected she has no answer.
There you go spouting the Dogma of your Cult again Faith. Are you ever going to honestly address any of the issues your utter nonsense faces?

How did the flood deposit material under already existing material without disturbing the older layer?

Faith, you keep making assertions that the flood did things but never explain how the flood did those things.

FACT: There are stone age sites all over the world and even pre-stone age sites.

FACT: Those sites existed before the flood is claimed to have happened.

FACT: None of those layers are more than a few tens of meters below the current surface.

FACT: All of those sites were are ground/surface level.

FACT: The evidence shows the site was at ground level at the time it was created by leaving evidence like fire pits and food remains and personal objects and man made objects.

FACT: All of those sites were buried by known observable processes.

Question: How could your flood deposit any material under an already existing layer without disturbing it?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 433 by Faith, posted 06-07-2018 9:14 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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