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Author Topic:   Motley Flood Thread (formerly Historical Science Mystification of Public)
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 877 (833872)
05-27-2018 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Faith
05-27-2018 12:53 PM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
Unfortunately, this is wrong. Respect is earned via effort. ICANT wants the theory of general relativity and the big bang theory explained so a fifth grader can understand it. Well, not everything can be explained to a 10-year-old if the standard is that you have to prove it to the 10-year-old.
We can use analogies and pictures and simplifications in order to describe the results, but actually convincing someone requires actually studying the science and reaching conclusions, perhaps with some guidance. Nothing can be proven with an analogy. The real data and science is required.
Respect is due to the person who puts in the effort to understand, and who is willing to question his own beliefs about science. That might mean going out and getting information or looking things up when the explanation being offered is not good enough. Zero respect is due to the illiterate person who won't even try to read a scientific paper.
I don't buy the explanation that you can't treat the public with the respect of giving some explanation instead of acting like you know it all and they just have to submit.
Let's not generalize too much. You are not necessarily representative of the public in terms of what is a reasonable level to present things.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 12:53 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:08 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 877 (833879)
05-27-2018 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Faith
05-27-2018 4:08 PM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
Respect should be automatic toward any human beings who read their magazines. Readers shouldn't have to qualify for respect.
Personal respect as a human being? Sure. But respecting their opinion on a scientific matter that required the scientist to study for a decade? That kind of respect must be earned.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:08 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:56 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 28 of 877 (833880)
05-27-2018 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
05-27-2018 4:07 PM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
Well, but I DID accept evolution
You accepted evolution based on what?

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:07 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:54 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 62 of 877 (833952)
05-28-2018 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Faith
05-27-2018 4:54 PM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
Based on the standard public school indoctrination along with their inadequate explanations, the way most people accept it.
The point, in case you missed it, is that you accept and reject evolution, and just about anything else, based on reasoning that would not satisfy anything. High school presentations may describe the theory of evolution, but the may well not provide what would constitute scientific proof to a 14-year-old audience. There is nothing nefarious about that.
If you want to understand complicated stuff, you might have to obtain a bit more of an education first.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:54 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 66 of 877 (833957)
05-28-2018 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
05-27-2018 4:56 PM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
didn't say anything about respecting the reader's "opinion," but they should be given the basic respect for their intelligence of not expecting them to buy into a flat assertion without any justification as if they were children.
The magazines are presenting/describing. They do not contain the proof you think ought to be there. That is not a lack of respect. The magazines simply do not serve what you are claiming is your purpose.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:56 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 77 of 877 (833985)
05-28-2018 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
05-27-2018 4:47 PM


I disagree that believers in the Flood need to try to deal with all the questions about how the Flood did this or that, and agree with mike the wiz on that subject. That's why I wasn't interested in that thread.
Really? Because you make nearly 900 posts about a very similar topic in another thread that just ended.
No, you don't have to try to deal, but you have done so, and likely will again.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 05-27-2018 4:47 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 110 of 877 (834051)
05-29-2018 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Faith
05-29-2018 7:25 PM


Re: Formation of walls quite clearly fits the Flood model
But that was probably Percy who said it can't happen.
It was not Percy. You said something pretty close to soil and dirt not being able to become sedimentary rock, and I am sure that is what Tangle is calling you on. I don't know exactly what you meant when you said it, so I will leave it open for you to explain.
There is no way that Percy would have said that sedimentary mud could not become rock. That would be inane.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Faith, posted 05-29-2018 7:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 05-29-2018 9:15 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(6)
Message 140 of 877 (834093)
05-30-2018 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Percy
05-30-2018 10:13 AM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
You're confusing reporters and journalists with scientists, and mystification exists only in your own mind.
I think the issue is more fundamental than that. A physicist would not start every inquiry by proving that F = ma, and he would not question the origin of the sun every time he counted the number of sunspots on them.
Similarly, a scientist studying the Jurrasic period is not going to write a bunch of papers proving that the earth is old or proving that dating methods work. That groud was well covered decades ago. If a popular science book is written describing the same period, the authors are not going to cover that material either. They do assume that the earth is old, for reasons that were covered when they were in college in countless fields of scientific endeavor.
If you want to question the time periods, you need to seek out the science or specific articles that actually address the age of the earth. But questioning why biologists and paleontologists do not do that in every single article or bit of research they do, whatever the audience, is beyond ridiculous.
This thread is just about Faith being butt hurt that the findings of science are taken seriously by some, and are not even being questioned by the authors of 99 percent of every article she will ever read. Yet when scientific papers are cited, suddenly her eyes glaze over, the paper is too white, the text too small even for optical aids, and the posts too long. The evidence is available, but it is not in kids coloring books about dinosaurs.
Nobody need apologize for what popular science rags do. It is totally legitimate to write even scientific articles that don't question the fact that the earth is billions of years old, or that humans evolved. There is a place for the details and the questioning too. But it is not in articles or research that is about something else entirely.
Isn't that Discovery Institute hard on the case disproving this stuff? Where is their science?
Like every thread Faith offers, this one is a farce that tells us much more about her than it does the purported topic. Keep them coming.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Percy, posted 05-30-2018 10:13 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 571 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-11-2018 11:36 PM NoNukes has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 153 of 877 (834110)
05-30-2018 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Faith
05-29-2018 9:15 PM


Re: Formation of walls quite clearly fits the Flood model
Percy has many times objected to my claim that the strata after the Flood were hard enough to be cut into a canyon rather than collapsing,
Which is not the same thing at all. Percy would never have said that sedimentary rock cannot form from sediments. That would require some kind of idiot.
so if I said something that sounds different than that it must have been in some other context and I have no idea what it was.
If you "said something that sounds different?" Sure. Let me remind you and everyone else exactly what you said. I don't believe any additional context is necessary, but I will provide a link to the message just in case you want to explain the inexplicable. From: Message 2760
Faith writes:
"Earth" can't become a sedimentary rock; "soil" can't become a sedimentary rock. Earth is made up of lots of things besides the simple separated ssediment that form the rocks in the geo/strata columns. Earth can't become one of those rocks. You can't turn earth into sedimentary rock so how are you going to get the next rock in your supposed stack of rocks? You aren't. Sigh.
From: Message 2824
Faith writes:
"Fossilized bits" is not what I was talking about, but about a whole lot of "earth" and "soil" supposedly incorporated into the sediment as part of the rock itself.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Faith, posted 05-29-2018 9:15 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 572 of 877 (834781)
06-12-2018 12:39 AM
Reply to: Message 571 by Minnemooseus
06-11-2018 11:36 PM


Re: Nope, it's not for the "scientifically literate" and the public deserves more respect
it is assumed that the reader has significant amounts of training in the subject at hand so that the authors don’t bother to fill in all the background.
I think your article describes half of the issue.
The other 50% is that by and large, the in question articles are not written to convince folks of things that are old hat. The intended purpose of every article, comic book, or TV show about the Jurassic is not to prove that it really happened tens of millions of years ago. Only a small percentage of the literature is intended to take on that question.
Complaining about a popular science article that does not take on your favorite issue is unreasonable in the extreme.
I wonder how many sermons don't include the pastor proving that Jesus was resurrected, but instead take that for granted.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 571 by Minnemooseus, posted 06-11-2018 11:36 PM Minnemooseus has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 574 by Faith, posted 06-12-2018 12:49 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
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