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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1576 of 1673 (840403)
09-28-2018 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 1575 by Phat
09-28-2018 4:51 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:

why do you consider yourself more Christian than Jewish?

What an utterly stupid question Phat.

I am a member of a recognized Christian Sect and not a Jew.

Phat writes:

Do you see any Jewish beliefs that you have internalized? How are they similar to your Christian beliefs? Is it all one religion to you?

What? Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all based on the same God character, the same set of stories, the same basic morality system. But they are distinct different religions.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1575 by Phat, posted 09-28-2018 4:51 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1577 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 12:18 PM jar has responded

Phat
Member
Posts: 12025
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1577 of 1673 (840426)
09-29-2018 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1576 by jar
09-28-2018 6:52 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
jar writes:

Christianity, Judaism and Islam are all based on the same God character, the same set of stories, the same basic morality system.

The ongoing question which we may never find an anser to is whether our ideas and beliefs about said "God character" reflect in any way the actual GOD.

Does He care what we think and believe or only what we do? Does He(She,It) care about us any more than pond scum?

Will we ever know?

Does our obsession with needing to know how GOD thinks indicative of our own need to control things more than finding our Cosmic Daddy?


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1576 by jar, posted 09-28-2018 6:52 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1578 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 12:22 PM Phat has responded
 Message 1582 by candle2, posted 01-31-2019 10:25 AM Phat has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1578 of 1673 (840428)
09-29-2018 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1577 by Phat
09-29-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:

The ongoing question which we may never find an anser to is whether our ideas and beliefs about said "God character" reflect in any way the actual GOD.

Does He care what we think and believe or only what we do? Does He(She,It) care about us any more than pond scum?

Will we ever know?

Certainly not while we are still alive.

Phat writes:

Does our obsession with needing to know how GOD thinks indicative of our own need to control things more than finding our Cosmic Daddy?

Only those who have such needed need to even wonder about that. Most folk don't have such a need or fill it by creating and worshiping the God they imagine.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1577 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 12:18 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1579 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 12:34 PM jar has responded

Phat
Member
Posts: 12025
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1579 of 1673 (840431)
09-29-2018 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1578 by jar
09-29-2018 12:22 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
jar writes:

Most folk don't have such a need or fill it by creating and worshiping the God they imagine.

I've often wondered how you label the Christian Culture of what you call "Willful Ignorance"...and this group appears to be quite large.

Among them are people whom I respect as being quite inciteful regarding their own personal beliefs and the rationale behind them.

You have always attempted to teach that there is no way that anyone can actually know what GOD thinks while we are alive. You have also dismissed most if not all of those who profess Christian apologetics.

Matt Dillahunty would agree with you to a large extent.

You seem to be ok with not knowing.

I agree that it is more about belief than knowledge. My belief insists upon a God Who cares. You seem to have no such need.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1578 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 12:22 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1580 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 12:56 PM Phat has responded

jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 1580 of 1673 (840436)
09-29-2018 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 1579 by Phat
09-29-2018 12:34 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:

You seem to be ok with not knowing.

Whether or not I am okay with not knowing really is irrelevant. Just as it's really irrelevant whether or not I am capable of jumping over the moon.

The issue is no one has ever explained how it might be possible to know anything about any supernatural thing or event.

Phat writes:

I agree that it is more about belief than knowledge. My belief insists upon a God Who cares. You seem to have no such need.

You still have it wrong Phat. My beliefs have no control over reality. It does not matter what I need or believe, I accept the reality that I cannot know.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1579 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 12:34 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1581 by Phat, posted 10-01-2018 7:26 AM jar has not yet responded

Phat
Member
Posts: 12025
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1581 of 1673 (840507)
10-01-2018 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 1580 by jar
09-29-2018 12:56 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
jar writes:

The issue is no one has ever explained how it might be possible to know anything about any supernatural thing or event.

So an angel appears to someone. (or a UFO, for that matter) and they are fully aware that they have experienced something unexplainable. They may well attribute it to a supernatural event,then..but can never know? See...I disagree with this idea that the atheists and you guys cling to that evidence is the only standard. Why can't experience count?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1580 by jar, posted 09-29-2018 12:56 PM jar has not yet responded

candle2
Member
Posts: 39
Joined: 12-31-2018


Message 1582 of 1673 (848062)
01-31-2019 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1577 by Phat
09-29-2018 12:18 PM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Christians accept both the OT and NT as being God inspired. The Jews accept the OT only. Muslims accept much of the OT, but the Quran is their holy book.

Both Jews and Muslims claim to worship the God of the OT. But, do they?

When we compare both Testaments, we soon learn that Jesus (who existed from eternity as the Word or Logos) was the God of both Testaments.

Jesus was the member of the God Family who created everything, including the angels. Nothing existed before He created it. Which is why (as our Creator) His blood, and His blood only, could atone for our sins.

He was the member of the God Family Who rode in the cloud as the Israelites left Egypt.

He, Himself, wrote the 10 Commandments on the tablets of stone.

He was the great "I AM," who appeared to Moses in the burning bush.

From a Christian perspective, it is quite contradictory for Jews and Muslims to claim that they worship the God of the OT when they despise Him.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1577 by Phat, posted 09-29-2018 12:18 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1583 by Phat, posted 01-31-2019 11:03 AM candle2 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 12025
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1583 of 1673 (848064)
01-31-2019 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 1582 by candle2
01-31-2019 10:25 AM


Re: Yetzer Hara
There is only one problem that the critics reasonable have with the sacrifice.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1582 by candle2, posted 01-31-2019 10:25 AM candle2 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1584 by ringo, posted 01-31-2019 11:07 AM Phat has responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16116
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1584 of 1673 (848065)
01-31-2019 11:07 AM
Reply to: Message 1583 by Phat
01-31-2019 11:03 AM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:

There is only one problem that the critics reasonable have with the sacrifice.


And what problem is that?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1583 by Phat, posted 01-31-2019 11:03 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1585 by Phat, posted 01-31-2019 11:13 AM ringo has responded

Phat
Member
Posts: 12025
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 1585 of 1673 (848067)
01-31-2019 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 1584 by ringo
01-31-2019 11:07 AM


Re: Yetzer Hara
I forget you can't see videos. It is essentially a video of Matt Dillahunty expounding on this:

It does sound rather convoluted. Christians at church would not so much as entertain this question. In my opinion, it is a valuable question to put on the list of questions for God to answer.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1584 by ringo, posted 01-31-2019 11:07 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1586 by ringo, posted 01-31-2019 11:17 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1587 by Tangle, posted 01-31-2019 12:09 PM Phat has not yet responded

ringo
Member
Posts: 16116
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1586 of 1673 (848068)
01-31-2019 11:17 AM
Reply to: Message 1585 by Phat
01-31-2019 11:13 AM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:

It does sound rather convoluted.


It isn't just convoluted. It's a complete non sequitur. It's like saying, "All dogs are brown. Therefore, the Eiffel Tower is the oldest bus-driver on Mars."

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1585 by Phat, posted 01-31-2019 11:13 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Tangle
Member
Posts: 6603
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 1587 of 1673 (848070)
01-31-2019 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 1585 by Phat
01-31-2019 11:13 AM


Re: Yetzer Hara
Phat writes:

It does sound rather convoluted.

You bet. It's also totally absurd.

Basically you are being told that your omnipotent god has to kill himself in order to be able to forgive you for something that you didn't do.

Does that make any sense at all to you?

Christians at church would not so much as entertain this question.

An organisation not being able to entertain an question should be an immediate reason to leave it. Not being able to answer it is different to not allowing it.

In my opinion, it is a valuable question to put on the list of questions for God to answer.

Sure, but it's hardly original. It's just another age-old question that has an answer but it's not one you want to hear. Just like the problem of suffering. Religion cannot answer these questions.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1585 by Phat, posted 01-31-2019 11:13 AM Phat has not yet responded

LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1348
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1588 of 1673 (848140)
01-31-2019 8:39 PM


Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
Without any commentary, just show me the scriptures that say God sacrificed HIMSELF.

HIMSELF.

(And I am not asking for scripture about his child or "son")

Scripture please.

Quote it.


Replies to this message:
 Message 1589 by Tangle, posted 02-01-2019 3:04 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6603
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 1589 of 1673 (848161)
02-01-2019 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1588 by LamarkNewAge
01-31-2019 8:39 PM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
LNA writes:

Without any commentary, just show me the scriptures that say God sacrificed HIMSELF.
HIMSELF.

(And I am not asking for scripture about his child or "son")

Scripture please.

Christians tell us that Jesus is part of a triune God - the Holy Trinity.

I'm not going to defend that obvious crap to you - you'll need to find a Christian to do that. But your good friend google has a lot to say about the Trinity's biblical support. Knock yourself out.

https://www.biblestudytools.com/...-verses-about-the-trinity


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1588 by LamarkNewAge, posted 01-31-2019 8:39 PM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1590 by LamarkNewAge, posted 02-01-2019 8:22 AM Tangle has responded

LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 1348
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 1590 of 1673 (848164)
02-01-2019 8:22 AM
Reply to: Message 1589 by Tangle
02-01-2019 3:04 AM


Re: Where does scripture say God sacrificed himself (HIMSELF)?
Nice quote from scripture.

(Did you miss the part about me ONLY wanting a raw scriptural quotation, absent any blather?)

Again, where does it say God sacrificed himself?

I don't care what (Gospel) John 1 says.

I know that some scriptures say Jesus was God.

I just want to see this large New Testament sacrifice theme being put into the context of God HIMSELF being the sacrifice.

(Again, I'm not saying that no New Testament books had the idea present, I just wonder why it might never actually spell out that GOD HIMSELF WAS THE SACRIFICE)

(I suppose my implication is that "Jesus is/was God" was such a LATE-developing idea, that the Biblical scriptures, with a reflection of various (earlier?) Christologies, did not quite have the chance to certainly describe the oft-repeated sacrificial lamb as God himself)


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1589 by Tangle, posted 02-01-2019 3:04 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1591 by Tangle, posted 02-01-2019 8:42 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded
 Message 1593 by ringo, posted 02-01-2019 10:44 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

  
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