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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
Stile
Member
Posts: 3465
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 1726 of 1748 (851285)
04-22-2019 8:49 AM
Reply to: Message 1720 by Faith
04-20-2019 2:21 PM


Faith writes:

It WILL come of course, there is no doubt about that, as part of Jesus' return or seven years before it, either way it will come.

No, it won't come.
There will never be a rapture, and your entire belief system is based on false hopes.

I'm sorry.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1720 by Faith, posted 04-20-2019 2:21 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1727 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2019 9:04 AM Stile has responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 19842
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 1727 of 1748 (851288)
04-22-2019 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 1726 by Stile
04-22-2019 8:49 AM


No, it won't come.
There will never be a rapture, and your entire belief system is based on false hopes.

What is disturbing is the number of people that not only believe it will come, but are actively pursuing the development of signs of the "End Times" ... such as the unification of Jerusalem/Israel, not for potential for peace but for the potential for End Times war. I think this is the whole crux of the Evangelical support for Trump.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 1726 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 8:49 AM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1728 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 9:28 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1729 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 10:06 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1732 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:49 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6131
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(2)
Message 1728 of 1748 (851293)
04-22-2019 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 1727 by RAZD
04-22-2019 9:04 AM


I think this is the whole crux of the Evangelical support for Trump.

I agree. The evangelical movement to support Israel is not based upon concern for Israel or Jews, but rather it is based on the hope that Israel starts a world war that they believe will instigate the return of this mythological Jesus guy. They want to destroy the world so they can go to this nirvana they fantasize about. It is all tied into the whole Christian Dominionist movement, which in actuality is the power behind the evangelical support for Trump. The non-evangelical people in the GOP think they are using this movement. But in reality the GOP is being used by them and very well may destroy this country.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1727 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2019 9:04 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1730 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 11:40 AM Theodoric has not yet responded
 Message 1731 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2019 12:18 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3465
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


(1)
Message 1729 of 1748 (851299)
04-22-2019 10:06 AM
Reply to: Message 1727 by RAZD
04-22-2019 9:04 AM


RAZD writes:

What is disturbing is the number of people that not only believe it will come, but are actively pursuing the development of signs of the "End Times" ...

Very disturbing indeed.
Such disturbing issues (putting faith in non-evidenced beliefs) have been at the heart of many (most?) of the wars for most of human history.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1727 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2019 9:04 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16464
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 1730 of 1748 (851318)
04-22-2019 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 1728 by Theodoric
04-22-2019 9:28 AM


Theodoric writes:

The evangelical movement to support Israel is not based upon concern for Israel or Jews....


Which explains how they can be "pro_Israel" and anti-Semitic at the same time.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1728 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 9:28 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1734 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:53 PM ringo has responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3454
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(1)
Message 1731 of 1748 (851323)
04-22-2019 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 1728 by Theodoric
04-22-2019 9:28 AM


I have seen this developing since 1970 with the Jesus Freak Movement. In the 80's, Pat Robertson had plans to set up loudspeakers everywhere proclaiming their message just to fulfill some prophecy requirement that everybody in the world had heard the message and rejected it.

Remember when Trump tried to recruit Kasich as his VP? Promised to make him the most powerful VP in history in that he would do all the work while Trump just lazed back and served solely as figurehead. Well, guess what Mike Dense (AKA "Pence", "Dense" was his nickname as governor) has been doing all this time. When Bush 43 (AKA "Dubya") cheated his way into the Oval Office, a fellow chief (albeit a boot chief, having just been admitted into the chiefs' mess), a Religious Programs Chief Petty Officer, expressed his joy at having a "born again" believer as President. Then I pointed out that someone who believed in the End Times now had his finger on The Button and even he had to do a "oh shit!". Now we have an imbecilic President who is itching to push The Button at the close advice of a fundamentalist End-Times VP advising him. What could possibly go wrong?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1728 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 9:28 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1733 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:51 PM dwise1 has responded

    
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12297
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


(1)
Message 1732 of 1748 (851324)
04-22-2019 12:49 PM
Reply to: Message 1727 by RAZD
04-22-2019 9:04 AM


OOPS! Self Fulfilling?
RAZD writes:

What is disturbing is the number of people that not only believe it will come but are actively pursuing the development of signs of the "End Times" ... such as the unification of Jerusalem/Israel, not for potential for peace but for the potential for End Times war. I think this is the whole crux of the Evangelical support for Trump.

This is one thing that I have mentioned before which concerns me...the idea that a possible war arises due totally because of self-fulfilling prophecy behavior from evangelicals. Even if such a saga was believed, the belief and subsequent actions of society itself may bring such a war to fruition...and while believers gloat and say that the war would be proof it would, in fact, be their very belief that started it! What does everyone think?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1727 by RAZD, posted 04-22-2019 9:04 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1738 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 2:12 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12297
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1733 of 1748 (851325)
04-22-2019 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 1731 by dwise1
04-22-2019 12:18 PM


OOPS! Self Fulfilling?
Yikes! Now I need everyone to pray...even non-believers! Perhaps God can save us from ourselves!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1731 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2019 12:18 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1735 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 12:55 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded
 Message 1737 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2019 1:43 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Thugpreacha
Member
Posts: 12297
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 1734 of 1748 (851326)
04-22-2019 12:53 PM
Reply to: Message 1730 by ringo
04-22-2019 11:40 AM


Getting Tanner
Perhaps the real cause of conflict in the world stems directly from the demise of white men in power throughout the US and Europe. We had our day in the sun and we never got tan enough to fit in!

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. ~RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith

You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

Subjectivism may very well undermine Christianity.
In the same way that "allowing people to choose what they want to be when they grow up" undermines communism.
~Stile


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1730 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 11:40 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1736 by Theodoric, posted 04-22-2019 12:59 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply
 Message 1739 by ringo, posted 04-22-2019 2:20 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6131
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 1735 of 1748 (851327)
04-22-2019 12:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1733 by Thugpreacha
04-22-2019 12:51 PM


Re: OOPS! Self Fulfilling?
Why waste time? Doing something might actually help.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1733 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:51 PM Thugpreacha has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6131
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


(1)
Message 1736 of 1748 (851328)
04-22-2019 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1734 by Thugpreacha
04-22-2019 12:53 PM


Re: Getting Tanner
Perhaps the real cause of conflict in the world stems directly from the demise of white men in power throughout the US and Europe.

White men are still in power. White men seem to be the cause of a lot of the conflict. The world at this moment is at one of it's most peaceful periods ever, (that is not to imply at all that there is no conflict) and it seems to be so despite white men still being in power.
We had our day in the sun and we never got tan enough to fit in!

The amazing thing is that you have no idea how offensive that statement is.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1734 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:53 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3454
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(3)
Message 1737 of 1748 (851338)
04-22-2019 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 1733 by Thugpreacha
04-22-2019 12:51 PM


Re: OOPS! Self Fulfilling?
Whiskey-Tango-Foxtrot ... Oscar?

Screw your no-show god! This is our problem and we need to solve it!

There's an old story that I've told before about the beautiful garden. A passer-by remarks to the gardener about the beauty of the garden and what God and the gardener had accomplished with it. The gardener replies, "Oh, that's nothing! You should have seen what a total mess it was when only God was attending to it."

We attended a Unitarian-Universalist church (long arduous story there) where the call to prayer included the words: "We say this knowing that prayer does not change things, but rather prayer changes us and we are the agents of change." I have found that outside of UU circles, those words can be very troubling.

Trust in no gods! We have to act to save ourselves!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1733 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:51 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
Stile
Member
Posts: 3465
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 1738 of 1748 (851341)
04-22-2019 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1732 by Thugpreacha
04-22-2019 12:49 PM


Re: OOPS! Self Fulfilling?
Phat writes:

This is one thing that I have mentioned before which concerns me...the idea that a possible war arises due totally because of self-fulfilling prophecy behavior from evangelicals. Even if such a saga was believed, the belief and subsequent actions of society itself may bring such a war to fruition...and while believers gloat and say that the war would be proof it would, in fact, be their very belief that started it!

Makes me wonder...

If you can "see the pathway" that could create a self-fulfilling war arising due to evangelicals and the "subsequent actions of society itself..."
Getting all carried away with the belief and forgetting to stop and take a look at their fellow man and the world around them.

Can you also "see the pathway" that could create a self-fulfilling religion arising due to evangelicals and the "subsequent actions of society itself...?"
Getting all carried away with the belief and forgetting to stop and take a look at their fellow man and the world around them.

Because I assure you, this has happened. More times than once. In more religions than one.
In fact, there's a pretty good case to be made that this is how all religions started...


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1732 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:49 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 1740 by dwise1, posted 04-22-2019 2:25 PM Stile has responded

    
ringo
Member
Posts: 16464
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 1739 of 1748 (851343)
04-22-2019 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1734 by Thugpreacha
04-22-2019 12:53 PM


Re: Getting Tanner
Phat writes:

Perhaps the real cause of conflict in the world stems directly from the demise of white men in power throughout the US and Europe.


And there has never been conflict among white men? Maybe you want to think that through. Hint: try Googling European history.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1734 by Thugpreacha, posted 04-22-2019 12:53 PM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 3454
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 1740 of 1748 (851344)
04-22-2019 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1738 by Stile
04-22-2019 2:12 PM


Re: OOPS! Self Fulfilling?
In the chess world (not a member) there is a phrase often used: Gens Una Sumus. We are one people.

Why is that such a difficult concept for so many people?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1738 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 2:12 PM Stile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 1741 by Stile, posted 04-22-2019 3:07 PM dwise1 has not yet responded
 Message 1742 by AZPaul3, posted 04-23-2019 4:22 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
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