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Author Topic:   Christianity and the End Times
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 346 of 1748 (836242)
07-12-2018 8:33 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by NoNukes
07-12-2018 8:30 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Oh it certainly is controversial. He did original research and contributed a lot of information that was not previously written about.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by NoNukes, posted 07-12-2018 8:30 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 349 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2018 1:43 AM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 347 of 1748 (836243)
07-12-2018 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 345 by NoNukes
07-12-2018 8:30 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
If Luke's information came from other written accounts, unknown to believers, why didn't6 he just put those accounts into circulation? Why didn't he just recommend them to Theophilus or have a copy made for him? No, he had his own information about these things that he thought it worth reporting. "Q" is a myth, made up by the "scholars" who obviously don't know how to read.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 345 by NoNukes, posted 07-12-2018 8:30 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 348 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2018 1:17 AM Faith has replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 348 of 1748 (836247)
07-13-2018 1:17 AM
Reply to: Message 347 by Faith
07-12-2018 9:01 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
f Luke's information came from other written accounts, unknown to believers why didn't6 he just put those accounts into circulation?
Have you ever written a paper Faith? I find your question quite astounding.
Apparently, none of the sources included the complete story that Luke wanted to tell, and did not describe Jesus from the perspective that Luke undertook to document. His Gospel serves that purpose regardless of what his actual sources were.
Luke almost certainly drew on many sources. I don't think there is any controversy about that whatsoever.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 347 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 9:01 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 351 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 11:29 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 349 of 1748 (836248)
07-13-2018 1:43 AM
Reply to: Message 346 by Faith
07-12-2018 8:33 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Oh it certainly is controversial. He did original research and contributed a lot of information that was not previously written about.
Faith, this statement does not contradict what I said in the least. Original research means consulting sources and accounts. At least some of those sources appear to be in common with the other Gospel authors.
Again, this is not controversial.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 346 by Faith, posted 07-12-2018 8:33 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 11:24 AM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 350 of 1748 (836260)
07-13-2018 11:24 AM
Reply to: Message 349 by NoNukes
07-13-2018 1:43 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Faith, this statement does not contradict what I said in the least. Original research means consulting sources and accounts. At least some of those sources appear to be in common with the other Gospel authors.
From the context in which I wrote it I obviously excluded his using written sources. They would have to have been unknown to believers because he refers to those that are well known and he had no need to repeat those, and if he consulted unknown sources he would have named them and recommended them, not written his own. There is no "Q" source, it's all imaginary.
Luke had opportunity to be with the apostles and hear their stories. He traveled with Paul. He knew about the political situation of the day and may have done some reading on that but it also may not have been necessary. Since he includes information about John the Baptist's birth it does seem likely that he got to interview Mary and others connected with that. HE WAS THERE, among the people most involved, not during Jesus' life but soon after. THERE IS NO NEED FOR AN IMAGINARY DOCUMENT TO EXPLAIN WHAT HE WROTE./
I trust the traiditional attributions

This message is a reply to:
 Message 349 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2018 1:43 AM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 352 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2018 12:51 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 351 of 1748 (836261)
07-13-2018 11:29 AM
Reply to: Message 348 by NoNukes
07-13-2018 1:17 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Lujke was THERE, NN, he spent time among the apostles. And if there were documents written that covered what interested him WHY WEREN'T THEY ALREADY WELL KNOWN as the ones he mentions were? THERE WAS NO NEED FOR OTHER WRITTEN SOURCES, HE WAS THERE.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 348 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2018 1:17 AM NoNukes has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 352 of 1748 (836270)
07-13-2018 12:51 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Faith
07-13-2018 11:24 AM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
From the context in which I wrote it I obviously excluded his using written sources. They would have to have been unknown to believers because
Your statement is baseless and idiotic. If there were written sources, they were written by believers and accordingly, they could not have been unknown to all believers.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 11:24 AM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 353 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 12:54 PM NoNukes has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 353 of 1748 (836271)
07-13-2018 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by NoNukes
07-13-2018 12:51 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Oh think for a change. He had no reason to write what was already known to believers, all the wriotings he starts out saying were well known./ The only source therefore that he COULD have used would have been UNKNOWN to believers. Sheesh. Grow a brain.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by NoNukes, posted 07-13-2018 12:51 PM NoNukes has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by ringo, posted 07-13-2018 12:58 PM Faith has replied
 Message 360 by NoNukes, posted 07-14-2018 8:20 PM Faith has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 354 of 1748 (836272)
07-13-2018 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Faith
07-13-2018 12:54 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Faith writes:
He had no reason to write what was already known to believers, all the wriotings he starts out saying were well known./ The only source therefore that he COULD have used would have been UNKNOWN to believers.
That doesn't make a bit of sense. He couldn't repeat what had already been said? Why not? He couldn't bring different sources together in one place? Why not?

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 12:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 1:04 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 355 of 1748 (836274)
07-13-2018 1:04 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by ringo
07-13-2018 12:58 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
As he SAYS, he is writing because he feels he has a good understanding of these things, he has no reason to repeat what believers already know, which he starts out mentioning. He wants to ADD to their knowledge from his own experience. He was writing to someone named Theophilis whom he knew personally. He says he knows he believes the same things he Luke also believes because of the writings of the eyewitnesses they are both familiar with, but he wants to give him MORE information from his OWN knowledge. Sheesh.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by ringo, posted 07-13-2018 12:58 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 07-13-2018 1:22 PM Faith has replied
 Message 359 by jar, posted 07-13-2018 5:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 356 of 1748 (836278)
07-13-2018 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
07-13-2018 1:04 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Faith writes:
He wants to ADD to their knowledge...
Yes, bringing different sources together in one place adds them together.
Faith writes:
... from his own experience.
He doesn't say that. He says that he understands the events, not that he experienced them.
Faith writes:
... but he wants to give him MORE information from his OWN knowledge.
Nope. He doesn't say that.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 1:04 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 2:30 PM ringo has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1471 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 357 of 1748 (836281)
07-13-2018 2:30 PM
Reply to: Message 356 by ringo
07-13-2018 1:22 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
I'm so sorry to learn of your mental handicaps that prevent you from reading and understanding and making correct inferencesfrom simple information. My condolences.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 07-13-2018 1:22 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 358 by ringo, posted 07-13-2018 4:08 PM Faith has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 438 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 358 of 1748 (836282)
07-13-2018 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by Faith
07-13-2018 2:30 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Faith writes:
I'm so sorry to learn of your mental handicaps that prevent you from reading and understanding and making correct inferencesfrom simple information.
The ad hominem just illustrates the fact that there is no substance to your position.

And our geese will blot out the sun.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 2:30 PM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 359 of 1748 (836286)
07-13-2018 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Faith
07-13-2018 1:04 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Yet Luke includes multiple mutually exclusive versions of several stories. If one is correct then the others are false.
Luke is simply an early apologist.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 1:04 PM Faith has not replied

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 360 of 1748 (836307)
07-14-2018 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by Faith
07-13-2018 12:54 PM


Re: The Olivet Discourse
Oh think for a change. He had no reason to write what was already known to believers, all the wriotings he starts out saying were well known.
Your supposition is not correct. There are four Gospels and much overlap in the material and Luke's Gospel was not the first one written. The idea that Luke would only write about what was unknown is demonstrably beyond ridiculous.
Secondly, the fact that there were other writings does not mean that those writings were widely spread or well known. Your argument is not logical.
Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)
"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!
We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.
Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith
I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith
No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT

This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by Faith, posted 07-13-2018 12:54 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 361 by Faith, posted 07-15-2018 1:33 AM NoNukes has replied

  
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