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Author Topic:   Evangelical Switch from Pro-choice to Anti-abortion
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 441 (836063)
07-09-2018 7:15 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Percy
07-09-2018 6:26 AM


Its All About Power
Interesting article!
Paul Rosenberg writes:
Conservative hypocrisy on abortion and guns is part of a much larger far-right power grab, built on dangerous lies...
Of course we knew that the Far Right formed by Falwell and the Moral Majority was a new form of conservatism that seeks to put its "people" in power...but it is interesting to see the evolution of this Neo-Conservatism and how it has shaped American politics.
It sure turned a lot of people off to organized religion, however.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Percy, posted 07-09-2018 6:26 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 76 of 441 (837164)
07-28-2018 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by jar
07-28-2018 8:50 AM


Re: after all the philosophical masturbation gets boring these issues remain
jar writes:
Is that really where we want to see US society go?
No.
I don't know what category of human I would be placed in, if others were judging me. Sometimes I can be stereotypical as an Evangelical, or a racist white person...other times as I allow my perspective to grow, I realize that I am still very much a work in progress and likely will end up the way that I choose to become, after having a life with enough evidence from all sides with which to consider.
I recently watched the 1956 movie classic, GIANT. One reason that I watched it is because at the grocery store which I work, we often find random books scattered throughout the store...dropped there by The Bookdrop Project, a clandestine literary initiative done locally here in Denver.
One book which I picked up was Scene From The Movie: GIANT by Tino Villanueva. I watched a You Tube clip of the fight scene itself and...spurred on by the fact that my best friend is from Mexico and has opened my eyes to the cultural diversity within his culture as well as curiosity about mine...so I eventually rented the 3 hour movie and also read Tino Villanuevas book.
So what does this have to do with Evangelical Switch from Pro-choice to Anti-abortion? It has to do with the attitudes that we as a people choose to embrace on an individual level. Your question about where we want to be headed brought all of this up in my mind.
Edited by Phat, : added clip

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by jar, posted 07-28-2018 8:50 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by jar, posted 07-28-2018 10:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 250 of 441 (837655)
08-07-2018 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Tangle
08-06-2018 12:45 PM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
tangle,to jar writes:
So you feel that its entirely up to the woman if she kills/aborts her baby 1/10 of a second before birth and you feel ok with that?
Keep in mind that he mentioned that the decision should be on a case by case basis and should involve the parents(usually) and the medical professionals. Earlier, you said that the decision should be left to the individuals
Tangle writes:
Only up to a semi-arbitrary date.
You mentioned that the medical experts would tell us when such a date would be. Thus is it true that you advocate a definite point beyond which there is no option?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Tangle, posted 08-06-2018 12:45 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 253 by Tangle, posted 08-07-2018 10:58 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 252 of 441 (837658)
08-07-2018 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by jar
08-07-2018 10:52 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
I think what Tangle means to suggest is that the medical staff should be bound by some sort of consensual law.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 10:52 AM jar has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 255 of 441 (837662)
08-07-2018 11:02 AM
Reply to: Message 251 by jar
08-07-2018 10:52 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
What I have said, and what I continue to say, is that on the subject of abortion my personal opinion is irrelevant and rightly should have absolutely nothing to do with the issue of any abortion; and that decisions related to abortion should be made by the mother, possibly the father and the medical staff involved in that particular instance.
So would you argue against there being a law that dictates any decisions?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 251 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 10:52 AM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 259 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 11:18 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 281 of 441 (837709)
08-07-2018 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 261 by Tangle
08-07-2018 11:59 AM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
Perhaps you have to rephrase your question.
tangle writes:
Neither you nor I know when life begins and we never will. But that is irrelevant because we have to decide anyway. (We being society). The question is about whether a woman should be allowed to electively abort her fetus or not. And if so, when.
So the question to ask jar is this:
If there was a law and/or decision that was presented to society via a question on a ballot regarding whether or not there should be a concise rule regarding when the right to abort a fetus stops, would you agree that it was a necessary law and social responsibility or would you vote against making such a law?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 261 by Tangle, posted 08-07-2018 11:59 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 284 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 4:12 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 286 of 441 (837717)
08-07-2018 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 284 by jar
08-07-2018 4:12 PM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
BUT... again, what I think personally is and should be irrelevant to the question of abortion.
If you were a voter your position would indeed be relevant.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 284 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 4:12 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 287 by jar, posted 08-07-2018 4:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 356 of 441 (837980)
08-11-2018 3:56 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by jar
08-11-2018 2:02 PM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
Because he wants a law in place to keep the action from crossing the line into the murder of the unborn. Obviously leaving it arbitrarily up to the parent(s) and Doctors on a case by case basis might cross that line.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by jar, posted 08-11-2018 2:02 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 357 by jar, posted 08-11-2018 4:31 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 358 of 441 (837984)
08-11-2018 4:48 PM
Reply to: Message 357 by jar
08-11-2018 4:31 PM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
perhaps Tangle believes that the moment when the "life" becomes sacred is a definite non-negotiable state and that society needs to protect the rights of the fetus.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 357 by jar, posted 08-11-2018 4:31 PM jar has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2018 5:20 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18248
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 360 of 441 (837986)
08-11-2018 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by Tangle
08-11-2018 4:53 PM


Re: If abortion is understood to be ending a human life, THEN we can talk alternatives
do you thus believe that society has an obligation to make a law that protects the rights of the unborn?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. —RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." —Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
You can "get answers" by watching the ducks. That doesn't mean the answers are coming from them.~Ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by Tangle, posted 08-11-2018 4:53 PM Tangle has not replied

  
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