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Author Topic:   A Book about the Anti-Trump Conspiracy
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 2 of 277 (836613)
07-20-2018 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Faith
07-19-2018 8:55 PM


Faith writes:

Yahoo headlines are nonstop Trump bashing, so are all the major news networks.

The news media considers anything a president says or does newsworthy, so naturally Trump's ignorant, truthless, bullying and malevolent tweets, comments and press conferences receive a great deal of press criticism. If he were to maintain a traditional presidential profile and demeanor (which would require informing himself and listening to his advisors) then his press coverage would be much more positive.

It's amazing, it's unprecedented,...

The press responses to Trump's unprecedented behavior may indeed be equally unprecedented. The Republican party's acquiescence and knuckling under to the president's bullying behavior, their willingness to suffer any indignity or violation of congressional prerogatives, is also unprecedented.

...and yet the left insists it's not so,...

No, you're wrong here, the left pretty much agrees that press coverage of Trump is unprecedented, because his behavior is equally unprecedented.

...that it's Trump causing all the problems,...

Trump's not responsible for family separation? For cozying up to brutal dictators? For starting a tariff war that has already resulted in US layoffs? For cutting the taxes on the rich far more than for anyone else? For increasing the deficit? For being anti-free trade? For antagonizing and attacking our allies? For not holding Russia responsible for their misdeeds? For making no effort whatsoever to foster a positive relationship with the press, except for Fox News, Breitbart, etc?

...they are merely being rightly critical.

Name a president who hasn't received press criticism. Trump receives a torrent of criticism because he commits torrents of misdeeds and lies incessantly.

Well THAT's not so but I gave up a long time ago saying anything about it here or to anyone except people who share my views.

Of course you gave up - it's hopeless defending defenseless positions and actions.

There are a lot of us but the other side drowns us out because they have the favor of the media.

Yes, there are a lot of you. And it doesn't matter how royally and continually he screws up and acts counter to the best interests of the United States and its institutions, you support him anyway. Just gotta have those conservative judges and get rid of those odious immigrants, I guess, and nothing else matters.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Faith, posted 07-19-2018 8:55 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 2:42 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 4 of 277 (836625)
07-20-2018 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Faith
07-20-2018 2:42 PM


That's it? Just a bunch of baseless allegations? No attempt to defend Trump's lies and screwups and attacks on our democratic institutions? No attempt to explain your support for Trump the anti-Christ as based upon anything more than believing he'll help advance the evangelical political agenda?

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 2:42 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 13 of 277 (836638)
07-20-2018 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Faith
07-20-2018 3:12 PM


That's it again? Just a bunch of baseless allegations?

Faith writes:

The press is not free, not since Trump was elected.

Really? Who's controlling Fox News and Breitbart?

They are in thrall to an agenda.

You mean an agenda of calling attention to:

  • All his lies
  • The family separation screwup
  • The negative ramifications of palling around with brutal dictators
  • Cutting taxes on the rich
  • Increasing the deficit
  • Making healthcare for the poor less obtainable
  • Involving us in a trade war that is already causing layoffs
  • His anti-free trade policies
  • Ignoring Russian election meddling

They have given up on any pretense at objectivity or fairness.

So in your bizarro world it isn't objective or fair to report on what Trump has done and is doing?

Pirro is so right about everything that has happened.

Did she predict that if Trump told transparent lies that the press would call him on it? If so then she was dead on.

It's so extreme even you on the left should be able to see it,...

Trump's lies are so extremely transparent that even you on the right should be able to see it.

...it's really amazing how you all accept and repeat the ridiculous rationalizations.

It's really amazing how you keep defending Trump while offering nothing of any substance.

I read chapter one of Pirro's book. She's lies good, just like her fearless leader.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 3:12 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 20 of 277 (836658)
07-20-2018 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Faith
07-20-2018 5:16 PM


Faith writes:

Me and Jeanine Pirro and all the millions who voted for Trump. We're all crazy, right? Crazy, stupid, whatever.

In the context of Pirro's book, who knows if you're all crazy or stupid or both. You haven't mentioned a single specific thing about it. I did read chapter one, and it's full of lies and absent any substance, so my suspicion is that anyone who finds chapter one convincing already believes that kind of silly stuff anyway and is a sucker for conspiracy theories.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 5:16 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 10:17 PM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 29 of 277 (836677)
07-21-2018 7:57 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Faith
07-20-2018 5:26 PM


Faith writes:

OK, the press is free, free to give up on all their once-admirable standards of objectivity and fairness when something happens that so seriously challenges their leftist proclivities like the election of Donald Trump.; Then they seem to have decided that it's more important to defy the will of half the country and distort the news or outright lie to bring him down.

The press is the same as it's ever been, accurately reporting the news as it happens. The press has always considered what a president says or does newsworthy, so if Trump says or does it then the press reports it. Unfortunately for Trump what he says or does is usually false or malevolent or ignorant or antagonistic or hostile or belittling or mocking or bullying or counterproductive or threatening to our democratic institutions or traitorous or treasonous or some combination. He's the opposite of presidential. It's like a foreign agent is running our government.

But I guess for many none of that matters. They find the Trump act refreshing, invigorating and entertaining, a 24-hour reality show where you can always catch up on the latest Trump misadventure in any newspaper or on any news station.

The media is not bringing down Trump. He's doing that himself, and they're just reporting it as he does it.

Pirro points out that Trump used to be hugely popular with the press and often presented him in a good light.

This is false. I grew up in the New York Metropolitan area, Trump's home base. Reportage was generally negative. The press treated Trump as what he was, a self aggrandizing scumbag real estate developer. His Atlantic City shenanigans took the cake.

She says he hasn't changed...

This is true, Trump hasn't changed since his early days. He's still the same sleazeball he's always been.

...but once he won the Presidency on a conservative platform they committed to bringing him down.

Trump is driving his own downfall. The press is just reporting it as it happens.

It's been obvious that this is going on to most of us on my side.

You keep saying this while not being able to offer even a modicum of support.

There is a journalistic blitzkrieg going on and it is truly unprecedented.

Trump is committing a blitzkrieg on democratic institutions and sensibilities. The press is just reporting it.

I don't know about an international conspiracy but that might be true too.

You've never met a conspiracy theory you didn't like.

However, given Europe's leftist proclivities, such as their suicidal attitude toward their immigrant anti-European Muslim problem, it isn't surprising that they would oppose Trump's America First views.

Ah, yes, you hate those immigrants, don't you. Can't have anyone who isn't white like you coming into the country. Perhaps your love of Trump comes from your shared racism.

By the way, this defense of the free press is not a claim that it is perfect and never makes mistakes, and it's about the news portion of the free press, not the opinion pages.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 5:26 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:15 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 31 of 277 (836683)
07-21-2018 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
07-20-2018 6:06 PM


=Faith writes:

ringo writes:

Faith writes:

Me and Jeanine Pirro and all the millions who voted for Trump. We're all crazy, right? Crazy, stupid, whatever.

Give your head a shake. That's exactly what you're saying about the people who disagree with you. Why is it wrong when I say it and right when you say it?

Cuz I'm right?

Ringo's question was rhetorical and didn't require an answer. He was merely pointing out your double standard.

I suggest you stop trying to turn your thread into a discussion of the qualities of the people who do or don't support Trump. They are not the topic. Keep things focused on Trump and what's in the Pirro book.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 6:06 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:26 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 34 of 277 (836690)
07-21-2018 9:09 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Faith
07-20-2018 10:17 PM


Faith writes:

In the context of Pirro's book, who knows if you're all crazy or stupid or both. You haven't mentioned a single specific thing about it. I did read chapter one, and it's full of lies and absent any substance, so my suspicion is that anyone who finds chapter one convincing already believes that kind of silly stuff anyway and is a sucker for conspiracy theories.

I'm sure you're right, those who are convinced by her already think that way, it's just nice to see it confirmed by someone else.

But it wasn't confirmed by someone else. Pirro merely repeated without evidence what you already believe. That's not confirmation, that's just a fellow traveler saying things you like to hear.

Not that it's new, the Right has been taking note of this for some time now, but it's satisfying to have it all in one place like her book.

Have all what in one place like her book? You haven't mentioned a single thing from her book.

We all agree about all of this, we can see what's going on quite clearly though we do appreciate those in the public eye who say it out loud.

What is it that you see going on?

It would also be nice if some of those on the left might recognize that there really are a lot of us who see things this way...

The left is very aware of the inexplicable Republican base.

...and consider that maybe there's something to it.

Well, by all means, tell us about what there is to it.

But I guess not, we're all just crazy or stupid or both.

I again suggest you avoid personal characterizations.

There really are conspiracies, especially these days, particularly on the Left.

We're well aware of the right's love of conspiracy stories, and of their inability to prove them. They just eat up every crazy idea Trump utters.

Say, I've been good and stayed off your Trump-Bashing thread since you requested it of me; I wonder if you would be so kind as to stay off this one?

Now you're trying to renegotiate an already negotiated deal about the The Trump Presidency thread. I cautioned you in Message 104 and Message 196. You weren't the only one I cautioned. I cautioned RAZD in Message 107, saying, "I'd like to avoid this becoming a thread about digging for dirt on Trump." I finally removed your posting privileges, after which you agreed to stay off the thread in return for your own thread, see Message 213, but you never bothered to start one, and in any case me staying off your thread was never part of the agreement. Unlike you I'm able to keep discussion focused on evidence instead of crazy right-wing websites and conspiracy theories.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Faith, posted 07-20-2018 10:17 PM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 36 of 277 (836694)
07-21-2018 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
07-21-2018 4:36 AM


Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
Faith writes:

As I started out saying I have been avoiding politics, I don't have any stomach for what is being said and done against Trump,...

You again are completely unspecific. There's no way to know what you're referring to. I can only respond generally that Trump has brought all his problems upon himself. If this is about recent events then I'll say that the media didn't make Michael Cohen pay off Daniels (directly) and McDougal (indirectly through AMI). The media didn't make Michael Cohen record a conversation with Trump about the McDougal payoff. The media didn't make Trump lie about the payoffs.

If this is about the castigation of Trump concerning his denigrating of his own intelligence agencies, criticism is coming from both the right and the left. If it's about the castigation of Trump and his disastrous performance in Helsinki (and we still don't know what he agreed to in private with Putin), criticism is coming from both the right and the left.

If this is about Trump's lies about his meetings with our NATO allies, the allies have all said his glowing accounts of browbeating them into upping their contributions immediately are untrue, that the final communique that all signed reiterated their prior commitment to reach 2% by 2024.

If this is about his misguided tariff wars (Trump: "Trade wars are easy to win." Hah!), layoffs have already begun.

...it is clear to me that there is a conspiracy to bring him down with all those accusations...

The accounts of Trump's damaging and untruthful words and actions are all true.

...and I can't do anything about it and I don't need the ulcer so I don't follow it.

If you're not following the Trump train wreck in the news, then why are you trying to discuss it?

But I know enough to appreciate what Pirro is saying.

If you don't follow it, how could you possibly know if what Pirro is saying is true?

It isn't just from the Democrats, but also fake Republicans,...

It's the same thing over and over again with you. First it's fake Christians, now it's fake Republicans. Do you have any substance to your claims, or do you just like to call people names.

...but in general it's right to say that the oppression and violence are from the Left.

But you don't follow it - how could you know? Maybe you should read this recent news article: Charlottesville Car Attack Suspect Indicted on Federal Hate Crime Charges. This is the guy who drove his car into a crowd of anti-Nazi demonstrators during the Nazi marches in Charlottesville last year, the marches where Trump said there were very good people on both sides.

It's been coming from the Left since Trump was elected...

What's been coming from the left is reporting of Trump's words and deeds.

...and it's the quiet nonviolent conservatives who have been suffering from it.

Again, you don't follow it, how could you know?

Neither the right or the left has a monopoly on good or bad people, but the left is not anti-gay, anti-black, anti-immigrant, anti-health-care-for-poor-people, anti-separation-of-church-and-state and anti-telling-the-truth.

This idea that it comes from the right is some kind of weird propaganda. Clueless.

Again, you're not following it, how would you know. Your lack of specificity is telling. You just like to say bad things about people you disagree with. For you, facts never enter into it. If you get to call people names then you're happy.

There has been no sign of it yet, and all the violence that has happened has come from the Left.

You're not following it, but you know that all the violence is coming from the anti-gun left.

The Left is Fascist these days, not the Right.

Well, more baseless name calling. Feel better now?

See the quote from Reagan in my signature. that's where the evil is today.

Reagan was probably trying to say this:

quote:
“When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross.” - Often quoted, frequently attributed to Sinclair Lewis, but attribution is actually unknown.

I don't think America has ever been closer to fascism than it has been under Donald Trump. He seems to think being president makes him the boss of everything and everyone.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 4:36 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 38 of 277 (836696)
07-21-2018 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Faith
07-21-2018 5:43 AM


Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
Faith writes:

All that is false leftist propaganda.

It is apparent that you don't have a factual leg to stand on.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 5:43 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 39 of 277 (836698)
07-21-2018 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Faith
07-21-2018 6:27 AM


Re: The Left is the Oppressor these days
Faith writes:

Charlottesville had nothing to do with conservatives, it was a bunch of white supremacists.

White supremacists aren't conservative? Who knew!

But Antifa beats people up and provokes violence wherever conservatives gather. There are still violent acts against innocent Trump supporters minding their own business. The hate and violence is all on the Left.

I don't think anyone on the left endorses Antifa. The left opposes both Antifa's politics and tactics.

Everything said about Obama was true and more than that.

Like what? That he wasn't an American citizen? That he's Muslim (not that it would matter, right?).

There is definitely a leftist conspiracy against Trump and his supporters and really, against the freedoms America always stood for.

As I said before, Trump is his own worst enemy. If he hadn't fired Comey there wouldn't be a Mueller investigation. If he hadn't ordered getting tough on immigrants we would have the family separation problem. If he hadn't started trade wars with the rest of the world he wouldn't be viewed as anti-free trade. If he hadn't said that he couldn't see how the 2016 election meddling could be Russia and complemented Putin's proposal that Russian investigators interrogate American citizens his Russian summit wouldn't have been a disaster. If he hadn't said the nuclear problem with North Korea was solved when it wasn't he wouldn't be seen as lying yet again. If he hadn't refused to condemn the Nazi's and white supremacists in Charlottesville he wouldn't be seen as a racist. If he didn't constantly tweet insults at congresspeople and the intelligence agencies he would be seen as against American democratic institutions.

The lies are on your side.

The suspicion must be that since you're unable to muster any facts that the opposite is true.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 6:27 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 40 of 277 (836699)
07-21-2018 11:32 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Faith
07-21-2018 8:15 AM


Faith writes:

The press is NOT the same as it has always been.

No, this is untrue, the press hasn't changed.

A few weeks ago I heard a journalism professor on the radio talk about how the press gave up its commitment to objectivity because they judged that it was more important to bring down Trump.

Did he muster any evidence for this claim? You certainly haven't.

I didn't need to hear that to know that the nonstop blitzkrieg attack on Trump on every news outlet was unprecedented and that something new and ugly was going on.

The "something new and ugly" going on is Trump, and the news media is reporting it.

Nothing like this has ever happened to any President before and everybody who is saying that is blind as a bat.

No president as bad as Trump has ever happened before, so of course news coverage will reflect that.

This is more than an attack on Trump, this is a direct assault on American freedoms.

Criticizing presidents is not an attack on American freedoms.

The press is lying, distorting, spinning everything in a negative light, emphasizing trivial gaffes and blowing things out of proportion, anything they can invent to make Trump look bad.

Trump doesn't need any help making himself look bad - he does it all by himself. This is Fox News host Shep Smith on the summit with North Korea:

quote:
America demanded complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization. … There's no guarantee of that, not even words to that effect,...
...
[Kim] wanted the photos, the seat at the table, he wanted the legitimacy that came with the event, the handshake with America's president. And he wanted those military exercises with the Americans and the South Koreans that happen every year to stop.

Kim Jong Un got it all, for actually doing nothing.


Fox News had the same opinion about the summit with Kim Jong Un as the New York Times, the Washington Post and CNN.

Here are some quotes from Fox News people on the summit with Russia:

  • Fox News anchor Neil Cavuto in response to the comment that Trump should have said Russia will be punished for what they did in the 2016 election: "But he didn't, and that's what made it disgusting. That's what made his performance disgusting."

  • For News anchor Brit Hume on Twitter: "Trump, finally asked whom he believes on Russia interference, gives a vague and rambling non-answer, with renewed complaints about Hillary’s server. Says he trusts US intel but made clear he takes Putin’s denials seriously. Lame response, to say the least."

  • Fox News reporter John Roberts: "[Trump] threw the United States under the bus..."

Moving on:

This is truly unprecedented. It's politically motivated. Whatever Trump's personal faults, this is a well funded politically motivated attempt at a coup.

If this is true then Fox News is in on your conspiracy, too.

Percy writes:

Ah, yes, you hate those immigrants, don't you. Can't have anyone who isn't white like you coming into the country. Perhaps your love of Trump comes from your shared racism.

And you are lying about my views of Muslims, lying through your teeth, tarring me with racist motives because that's what leftists do, you can't tell the truth you have to slather on the Political Correctness which is nothing but character assassination. Fascist Leftist Liar.

Well, if I'm wrong that you're against immigration of non-whites into the US then I apologize. I'm glad to hear you support immigration from Mexico and Syria and Iraq and Pakistan and Myanmar and so on.

I did ask you to please leave this thread since I left yours at your request. Please do so.

AdminPhat is moderating the thread. I think you should request that he issue suspensions to anyone not offering fact-based arguments.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:15 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 41 of 277 (836701)
07-21-2018 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by Faith
07-21-2018 8:26 AM


Faith writes:

Please leave this thread you lying Fascist Leftist propagandist.

Faith, you're turning your own thread into a garbage dump. The topic is Pirro's book about Trump, yet so far you haven't brought a single factual argument from that book into this thread. I again suggest you keep your focus on your topic, namely Trump and Pirro's book about the supposed conspiracy against him.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 8:26 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-21-2018 11:51 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 46 of 277 (836709)
07-21-2018 12:14 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Thugpreacha
07-21-2018 11:51 AM


Re: Admin Phat minus cape
Phat writes:

Faith does have sources that support her beliefs and suspicions...and in her defense, I will say that there are plenty of people who think as she does who can be linked as source material.

This is the "50 million Frenchmen can't be wrong" fallacy. The number of people who agree about something is not a supporting argument or "source material" (except maybe sociologically). It's the facts and rationale that matter, not the number of people who think something.

Perhaps in regards to evidence, she does have a large segment of the US population that thinks as she does.

No one doubts that there are plenty of people who think as Faith does. Clinton did win the popular vote 48.2% to 46.1%, but 46.1% is still a great many people.

But it is not a question of how many people think as Faith does. It's a question of whether they can bring facts and rational arguments to the table, instead of name-calling and bald declarations.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Thugpreacha, posted 07-21-2018 11:51 AM Thugpreacha has acknowledged this reply

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 78 of 277 (836756)
07-21-2018 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
07-21-2018 5:29 PM


Re: Focus On The Book
Responding only to the parts that at least somewhat touch on the topic...

Faith writes:

I oppose illegal immigration...

We all oppose illegal immigration, but those of us with a heart recognize that fleeing drug lords or war zones or abuse or other dangers doesn't always provide the opportunity to follow the niceties of US immigration law. Presenting oneself at a designated immigration station isn't always an option. We are not the country of family separations and callous deportations but of compassion and opportunity. We must return to striving toward these ideals.

...and Muslim immigration for good reasons that have nothing whatever to do with racism...

Your assertions that Islam is a murderous religion do not hold up. Plus all immigration applicants go through a screening process that stretches over years and is more than sufficient to detect potential terrorist threats. The process is already too drawn out and exhaustive.

...but the Left only knows what Cultural Marxism decrees: we are racists and homophobes and worse, there is no such thing as objective reasons for these things.

It has nothing to do with the left or cultural Marxism. Racial discrimination or LGBT discrimination or "just because they're different" discrimination isn't transformed into non-discrimination just because you say some book says it's okay. It's still racist or` homophobic.

Also, this demand for evidence isn't as reasonable as you think it is,...

If you have no evidence then you no rationale for what you believe - it's just what you feel like believing.

...it's just a way of refusing to entertain the reasonable point of view of the opposition,...

How can a point of view with no evidence to have reasoned from be reasonable?

...basically a big fat "shut up" to conservatives.

No one's telling you to "shut up," but if you have no evidence to underpin what you believe, then what is there for you to say? You can only repeat what you believe over and over again - you have no means of persuasion, unless browbeating counts.

Sorry there really is a conspiracy by the leftist media to bring down Trump...

You keep saying this but never supporting it. Trump is his own worst enemy. If he hadn't fired Comey there wouldn't be a Mueller investigation. If he didn't sleep with porn stars and playmates, then pay them off to keep voters from finding out, then lie about it, then lie about paying them off, then he wouldn't have that big mess. If he hadn't ordered getting tough on immigrants we wouldn't have the family separation problem. If he hadn't started trade wars with the rest of the world he wouldn't be viewed as anti-free trade. If he hadn't lied about the NATO allies contributions he wouldn't have European heads of state saying he hadn't told the truth. If he hadn't said that he couldn't see how the 2016 election meddling could be Russia and complemented Putin's proposal that Russian investigators interrogate American citizens his Russian summit wouldn't have been a disaster. If he hadn't said the nuclear problem with North Korea was solved when it wasn't he wouldn't be seen as lying yet again. If he hadn't refused to condemn the Nazi's and white supremacists in Charlottesville he wouldn't be seen as a racist. If he didn't constantly tweet insults at congresspeople and the intelligence agencies he wouldn't be seen as against American democratic institutions.

There is no conspiracy to bring down Trump. He's doing it to himself.

...but all we get is the inane declarations of what the press is supposed to be without a hint that anybody sees the total blitzkrieg that's going on.

You've used the word blitzkrieg before. Trump is committing a blitzkrieg on truth and integrity and decorum, and the media is reporting it, even Fox News.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Typo.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 07-21-2018 5:29 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Faith, posted 07-22-2018 6:33 AM Percy has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 18807
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 86 of 277 (836773)
07-22-2018 7:11 AM


Biblical Revision: Gay Sex Used to be Okay
According to The Secret History of Leviticus in today's New York Times, homosexual sex used to accepted. Clues left behind in the text reveal that Leviticus underwent editorial revision over time that eventually included a ban on homosexual behavior that was not originally there. Some excerpts:

quote:
Like many ancient texts, Leviticus was created gradually over a long period and includes the words of more than one writer. Many scholars believe that the section in which Leviticus 18 appears was added by a comparatively late editor, perhaps one who worked more than a century after the oldest material in the book was composed. An earlier edition of Leviticus, then, may have been silent on the matter of sex between men.

But I think a stronger claim is warranted. As I argue in an article published in the latest issue of the journal Hebrew Bible and Ancient Israel, there is good evidence that an earlier version of the laws in Leviticus 18 permitted sex between men. In addition to having the prohibition against same-sex relations added to it, the earlier text, I believe, was revised in an attempt to obscure any implication that same-sex relations had once been permissible.
...
What we have here is strong evidence of editorial intervention.
...
It seems that with the later introduction in Leviticus of a law banning all male homosexual intercourse, it became expedient to bring the earlier material up-to-date by doing away with two now-superfluous injunctions against homosexual incest — injunctions that made sense when sex between men was otherwise allowed.


I left a lot out, those interested should read the piece, and the linked to research article, for full details, but in essence the author argues that the Bible was originally fine with gay sex.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Minnemooseus, posted 07-22-2018 8:20 AM Percy has responded

    
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