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Author Topic:   A truly chilling new poll on American attitudes about the media
NoNukes
Inactive Member


(2)
Message 4 of 18 (837786)
08-09-2018 9:22 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by RAZD
08-09-2018 9:02 AM


Re: Freedom
Freedom to sue the perpetrators of false information is also paramount as a check on the press

I am not convinced of the truth of your statement. False information is not the problem. Lying can be overcome by allowing others to tell the truth. Alex Jones' false information was also defamatory and included threats of violence and encouragement of violence by others. And folks acted on that violence.

Yes, you ought to be able to sue folks for that kind of thing. Alex should be free to lie about chemtrails and false flag operations to his heart's content, but attacking private citizens is another thing entirely.

Of course, it is a problem that people believe nonsense, but the way to fix that stuff isn't through lawsuits, in my opinion. Also, I like the idea that I can identify who the goofy folks are by listening to them defend Pizzagate stories as real or even plausible.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 9:02 AM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 10:51 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 11 of 18 (837831)
08-09-2018 5:50 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by RAZD
08-09-2018 10:51 AM


Re: Freedom

So how has this worked in today's world? Badly -- some people aren't interested in the truth, ignore it when told, and preferring "feel good" fake news. Example: Faith.

Apparently Canada has a law against false news, and as a result there is no Faux Noise Nutwerk there.

Yes, that is the downside of having a First Amendment. However the upside is an order of magnitude greater. I cannot agree with you on this point. Besides "but it fools Faith" cannot be the standard for deciding whether the system works.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by RAZD, posted 08-09-2018 10:51 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 12 of 18 (837850)
08-10-2018 12:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by jar
08-09-2018 8:14 AM


Freedom to sue the perpetrators of false information is also paramount as a check on the press

False Reports Inc reports that Trump won the Nobel Prize for Physics. Faith buys that, hook line and sinker, but you know better because you immediately wrote to the Prize committee who issued a strong denial which was not reported by False. Who gets to sue?

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by jar, posted 08-09-2018 8:14 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 08-10-2018 6:42 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 14 of 18 (837869)
08-10-2018 8:35 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by jar
08-10-2018 6:42 AM


Re: what is true in the fantasy world
Anyone can sue, that is the easy part.

If the answer were easy, I would not have asked.

The problem is that suing requires that you have an injury or you don't have standing. If you don't believe the lies, then there is no injury. In theory, if you are the subject matter of the lies, you have an injury, but in this case, the lie is that Trump did something positive, so he cannot sue.

Finally, the buffoons who believe the lies are not going to sue. They desperately want the lies to keep coming.

In false advertising situations, the government can sue in the name of the public, but allowing that in this situation is a clear violation of the first amendment. Do we really want the government to have the ability to police news agencies?

I just don't see a plausible way to make this stuff work.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by jar, posted 08-10-2018 6:42 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 08-10-2018 8:52 AM NoNukes has responded

  
NoNukes
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 18 (837874)
08-10-2018 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by jar
08-10-2018 8:52 AM


Re: what is true in the fantasy world
But it is the courts that decide standing

They decide standing issues but not based on their whims. Standing is, at least in part, a constitutional issue. And where the first amendment is concerned, courts and even the legislature are not free to just make up their own rules.

But it is exactly those buffoons who will sue the reporter and news source that publishes that Trump did not win the Nobel Prize for Physics and that the Prize committee issued a strong denial that he had done so. It is that False News that will be the topic.

Such folks will lose immediately. That's not a problem even if we don't put in the kind of laws RAZD suggests. You are not making your case with this argument, because your outcome will be a bad one.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

"Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, the wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”

We got a thousand points of light for the homeless man. We've got a kinder, gentler, machine gun hand. Neil Young, Rockin' in the Free World.

Worrying about the "browning of America" is not racism. -- Faith

I hate you all, you hate me -- Faith

No it is based on math I studied in sixth grade, just plain old addition, substraction and multiplication. -- ICANT


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by jar, posted 08-10-2018 8:52 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 08-10-2018 9:25 AM NoNukes has not yet responded

  
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