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Author Topic:   Is The World Getting Better Or Worse?
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 32 of 762 (838581)
08-23-2018 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
08-19-2018 4:05 PM


Is the world getting better or worse?

Obviously there is a lot to be desired in the sheer broadness of the question without compartmentalizing it into specific context. It really is a question relative to circumstance.

I think if we take an aggregate approach we can determine that population increases globally demonstrate that at the moment there is enough food, enough water, few enough global conflicts, few enough natural disasters, and few enough pandemics to maintain the overall upward population curve. We could use that as a determining factor to measure success, never mind how nebulous it might be, I suppose.

We can also logically deduce that eventually a competition of resources will result in a decline of the human population. One day, maybe in our lifetime, populations will rapidly decline. It might come as a collapse of the global market, an outstripping of natural resources, a series of cataclysmic disaster, famine, pestilence, massive war the likes the world has never seen... maybe a combination.

There will be another KT extinction event again... whether that's nature's doing or by man's own hand, as sure as I know the Sun will rise tomorrow I can predict the same certainty that one day everything will be disastrous... for someone. And if a handful of mankind can somehow survive, they will start over from zero.

But perhaps you didn't mean on such a grand scale. Maybe you want to know if life is better now than it was in the 1950s. If you ask the Chinese, they might say their lives improved considerably. They shifted away from an agrarian existence and are set to overtake the US. I don't know... is that better? Is that worse? Point is, we really don't have a reference point. It's all relative to what we each individual would describe as "better" or "worse."

I guess the question itself is kind of like a stationary bike. It's fun to do, but it really doesn't get you anywhere.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 70 of 762 (863004)
09-18-2019 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by Tanypteryx
09-17-2019 5:20 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
It would not hurt them either.

Uh, yeah it would, because the second that becomes normative is the second that it sets a precedent of thousands of people intentionally waiting in order for a free hand out. Its a matter of perspective really... the farmer who trashes unsold produce is greedy because he could just donate that food to the needy. But we rarely think of the people who wants a free handout at the expense of the farmer as greedy... maybe should qualify who actually is needy, because even people who are not needy has an incentive to want something for free. There is a difference between needy and wanty. All human beings are capable of greed, rich or poor.

And being seen by fellow humans helping those in need makes it more likely that when the generous farmer needs a hand, that others will help them.

If you can fathom a scenario where generous people are being taken advantage of on account of their naive generosity then perhaps you can understand why the farmer, who busts his ass from the second he wakes up until the time he crashes, then you can also understand why instituting a policy like that would have deleterious consequences.

Raising everyone's standard of living raises everyone's standard of living, but you're afraid someone else might get more than you.

Yeah, that must be Phat's motivation... a fear of a poor person getting a cucumber for free instead of .72 cents a pound.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 72 of 762 (863028)
09-18-2019 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by ringo
09-18-2019 3:20 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
quote:
But we rarely think of the people who wants a free handout at the expense of the farmer as greedy

Because we rarely define greed as having enough to eat.

Expect in an age of WIC, TANF, Section 8, Medicaid, SNAP, Medicare, EBT food stamps, etc, etc, starvation is about as rare as Polio. So if somebody wants free food then they just want free food. Its not a matter of life or death.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by ringo, posted 09-18-2019 3:20 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Theodoric, posted 09-18-2019 10:22 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 74 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-18-2019 11:36 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 79 by ringo, posted 09-19-2019 11:48 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 75 of 762 (863039)
09-19-2019 12:16 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by Theodoric
09-18-2019 10:22 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
WIC is for women with young children, TANF is only available for families and for a limited period of time. Some states limit it to 12 months lifetime. Neither gives enough for a family to survive. Section 8 is housing, the vouchers are extremely hard to get in most places. Nothing to do with food.
In most states in order to receive SNAP benefits there is a 20 hour a week work requirement. It is very hard to hold a job when you are homeless and mentally ill. Even then SNAP benefits are extremely minimal.
Medicare has nothing to do with food. I am not sure how you think medicare helps out a hungry person. EBT food stamps is the same as SNAP, see above.
Your middle class, white privilege is showing.

Its tax money given to them so they don't have to shoulder the burden as all of those are now expenses that they aren't incurring... All of those are things that everyone is expected to pay for, which costs money. So it stands to reason that if you're on Section 8 housing, that your rent is so reduced that it frees up other money that can be used for things, like, food. And really anyone on Section 8 housing pretty much guarantees them food stamps.

Starvation is rare but malnutrition is endemic among the poor and working poor of this country.

Yeah, and you would think the government would have the foresight to limit certain food items that barely qualify as food. Although malnutrition in general, rich or poor, is a huge problem. Cuz people would rather heat up a pack of Ramen than eat a carrot once in awhile.

Have you ever experienced actual hunger? Have you seen the results of malnutrition? Its costs are much higher than if we just fed people.

I'm surrounded by death, violence, maliciousness, and depravity inflicted by humans onto other humans. And a lot of it is sadly directed towards children. So, yeah, I've run the gamut of human suffering. But I'm curious as to your last declaration about costs and feeding people. Are you suggesting that food should be free?

OH and you are a self righteous ass.

Bold words coming from the most self-righteous, fault-finding, finger-wagging moral crusader on the forum.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 73 by Theodoric, posted 09-18-2019 10:22 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 76 of 762 (863040)
09-19-2019 12:19 AM
Reply to: Message 74 by Tanypteryx
09-18-2019 11:36 PM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
You forgot corporate welfare.

Corporate welfare subsidizes social programs?

And I pay for my medicare, Asshole!

Congratulations, I'm very proud of you.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 74 by Tanypteryx, posted 09-18-2019 11:36 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 197 of 762 (863347)
09-25-2019 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by Theodoric
09-19-2019 8:36 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
I am not surprised that you do not get the point of his comment.

And I'm not surprised that you can't recognize sarcasm.

Hint: corporate welfare has jack shit to do with, well, anything we're talking about. Its just mindless regurgitation of progressive talking points.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Theodoric, posted 09-19-2019 8:36 AM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 198 of 762 (863349)
09-25-2019 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by Theodoric
09-19-2019 8:34 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
You have no real understanding of how public assistance works or who the vast majority of people on public assistance are. Very few of them are freeholders trying to take advantage of the system.

Haha, yeah, okay... So all these Americans are so destitute that it requires government subsistence to survive? Wrong. The overwhelming case is abuse, which is a real shame considering there are still millions who actually do need a legitimate helping hand.

https://www.lexingtonlaw.com/...ance/welfare-statistics.html

Go ahead call me a social, justice warrior. I dare you. I wear that with pride.

Okay. You're a Social Justice Warrior

Sounds about as ferocious as a tampon commercial.

Better than being an self entitled, blame the poor wing nut. Oh yeah your alt-right creds are showing again.

I understand. You'd rather have everyone be poor so we can all eat a shit sandwich equally. I understand.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 199 of 762 (863350)
09-25-2019 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by ringo
09-19-2019 11:48 AM


Re: A Couple Clarifications
I spoke of "having enough to eat" and you go straight to starvation? Surely you aren't so blind that you don't know there are people who don't have enough to eat.

Then maybe you find it ironic how the poorest people also happen to be the fattest people. What its really called is "bad life choices."

Everybody needs food. Some people need to use social programs and charities to feed their children and themselves.

All living things need food... but the lion doesn't ask permission to feed its young. It sees its need and it goes out and gets it. Someone doesn't bring the antelope to it. And, yes, some people do need social programs and charities. I'm distinguishing from the ones that don't and who selfishly and needlessly pilfer from those who do.

It doesn't have to be. A healthy, well-fed workforce is essential to any society.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 200 of 762 (863351)
09-25-2019 2:42 AM
Reply to: Message 188 by AZPaul3
09-24-2019 10:44 AM


Re: Why is it always the Environment versus the Economy?
How do you deal with the largest multinational energy companies knowing the dangers of global warming for the last 50 years yet continuing to spend wildly to muddy the science to the public and curtail government efforts to even discuss the issue? Think the lies of Big Tobacco but a billion times bigger.

There is definitely some truth to it that these energy companies execs are so focused on their bottom line that they don't have enough forethought to give two shits about the safety and security of your children 20 years from now, let alone their own. And your implication is right... its laced with disgusting levels of unabashed greed. Pure and simple.

But we also need to recognize that there has been a cultural shift and the pendulum is swinging towards renewable energy. They know it too... and they also now know that there is both a growing market for it and a growing demand. And if greed is their end game, they'll go where the money is. And if green (renewable) can turn into green (cash), they'll back that up too. If Tesla can shake things up, which they have, other companies are soon to follow... and whaddya know... Porshe wants in. Mercedes-Benz wants in. Soon all of them will too.

Having said that, there are a few realities that dictate currently. One of those realities is that while preparation for the future is of the utmost importance, that life is nevertheless in the here and now. There's no point in decrying the evils of gasoline when, if it were to come to a screeching halt tomorrow, the world economy would collapse in less than 24 hours leading to the deaths of untold millions NOW.... forget 25 years from now.

And bet your sweet ass that the loudest and most shrill voices concerning climate change are still driving around in gas-operated motor vehicles on their way to the airport, where the loudest and shrillest voices concerning climate change gleefully hop on a gas-guzzling, carbon-shitting-into-the-atmosphere planes to their final destination... where they then take carbon-emitting cabs to their climate change conferences. But, hey, life still exists in the here and now and even the staunchest adherents about the importance of climate change know that and know that some evils are necessary... for however ironic it might be.

If you have more than a 5% carbon footprint in your daily life, you don't get to cry foul ball about the awful multinational corporations. All you need to do is look in the fucking mirror at the hypocrite staring back at you! Love them, hate them... doesn't matter. They're keeping you alive today. Its fun to scream "blood for oil" when times are good. Let me know how that works out for you when unleaded is $500 a gallon and there's looting in the streets in every nation on earth.

There's money to be made in renewable energy. Once the US, China and India fully embraces it, we'll weather this storm.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 188 by AZPaul3, posted 09-24-2019 10:44 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

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